Widower Wednesday: Second Chances
January 19th, 2011 | 63 comments
In the comment section (#25) of a recent Widower Wednesday post, Annabelle writes:
I have looked at this site a few times before deciding to go ahead and give things a go with the guy I have been dating for the past 3 months. After being convinced and seeing good signs he had moved on and wanted a new start I decided to give him a go.
But yesterday – like so many stories I have read – the same thing has happened to me like so many others and I really believed it would not…..
I have heard it all, I love you, I want to build a future with you, you are amazing and then yesterday – he feels a difference in how I feel for him and how he feels for me.
She goes on to describe the widowers actions and how she felt when the widower suddenly and unexpectedly ended the relationship. Then she asks the following question:
This is so confusing….. is it over or do you think I should just walk away and not even give him a second chance?
Whether or not to give a widower a second chance is a great question and, unfortunately, one that many women who date widowers have to answer.
There’s a part of me is sympathetic to the widowers who end relationships only to think they might have made mistakes. I know what it’s like to want to date again and have a serious, committed relationship while still trying to sort out the internal feelings of grief and moving on. These feelings can lead to conflicting emotions and uncertainty about whether the relationship they’re in is the right one.
And I’ve personally benefited from second chances. Those who have read Room for Two or have been following this blog for awhile know that if it wasn’t for a second chance, my relationship with Marathon Girl would have ended after our first date. (Of course, my second chance involved a second date. I never got serious with Marathon Girl’s hopes only to abruptly end the relationship because I of mixed emotions.)
However, I also know what it’s like to start and continue a relationship just for the sake of having someone fill the hole in one’s the heart. I know what it’s like to tell someone you love them when deep down you know the relationship isn’t right just because you miss having someone special in your life and, later, to unceremoniously dump them. Personally, I think most widowers who ask for second chances fall into this category.
Widowers who tell their girlfriends they love them and want to spend their life with them only to dump them usually aren’t worthy of second chances. In my mind most widower come crawling back because they miss the company, companionship, sex, and other benefits of a relationship – not because they’re ready to move on. Widowers will pursue women they truly love. They won’t unexpectedly end the relationship or have doubts about moving on. They’ll figure out a way to check their emotions and make things work.
So, should you give your widower a second chance? Generally I advise against it. Most women who email me that have given their widower second, third, or even fourth chances generally end up getting their heart broken again and again. I think the saying “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me” applies to this situation.
However, if your gut (not your heart) tells you he’s worthy of a second chance, draw a line in the sand and take control of the relationship. Let the widower know how you expect to be treated and that if you have the feeling he’s not ready to move on or is serious about the relationship, you’ll end the relationship. Keep your eyes wide open for any red flags. And it he steps out of line, don’t hesitate to end things.
Entry Filed under: Widower Wednesday
@Annie, one more thing, thank you also for being a voice of reason, having been on both sides of the proverbial coin. Your insight is remarkable.. your comment that just because you and your former husband were separated as a result of death vs. divorce doesn’t somehow elevate you to a superior status. You can’t know how much I appreciate your saying that!
I’ve heard people make the same comment about my husband, that b/c his first marriage lasted a long time that he was “good husband material” and so forth. His first marriage was like any marriage, a combination of good and not so good. As is ours. And most everyone else’s. But, simply having “stayed in the game” doesn’t necessarily give a person “mad marriage skills” as you put it… and may not even mean the marriage was a healthy one. People stay in (and leave) marriages for a myriad of reasons, not always as romantic and noble as one might assume. Additionally, people make a LOT of assumptions about situations involving widowers and remarriages. It’s refreshing to hear you speak so eloquently and intelligently about a potentially emotionally-charged situation. (I’m done emoting now…lol… am just so happy to find kindred spirits and perspectives on this site!)
@Annie, you said:
I guess I think to call it “romanticized nonsense” does a disservice to all those who stuck with their husband or wife through illness and death. (Not of course the circumstance of all widows and widowers, but many that I know.) Do you really think a guy like that is no better than one who dumped the mother of his children for some pretty young thing? And, I’m sorry, but in an age where 50% of marriages end in divorce, actually fulfilling one’s vows is not something I think should be dismissed. Should some marriages end that don’t? Of course. But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t celebrate and honor those that were ended by death, not by choice.
Indeed, but no one, including me, has said that it is.
I wouldn’t suggest that was a good idea for anyone. But I do believe that our experiences have helped make us who we are today, and that to ignore or minimize the importance or impacts of the past is a recipe for denial and unintended consequences later on. Just as it is psychologically damaging and misguided to tell those who have experienced trauma to “get over it,” I believe it is equally damaging to tell those who have had positive experiences to discount their impact and importance. It is all a part of the stew; it all deserves to be honored and respected and understood, in ourselves and others.
I suppose that depends on what you mean by “primary” and “all.” Many things, people and experiences in our lives have had an effect on who we are, to varying degrees. I was married to my late wife for 19 years, so you can be sure that had a big impact! Certainly, our marriage wasn’t perfect, so those impacts are going to be a mix of good, bad and in between, just as my relationships with my parents and my children. I guess what I don’t understand is the idea that somehow one’s relationship with a late spouse is a threat to the new one. That sounds like insecurity talking. Maybe we should be asking our prospective partners, “Can you handle a widow(er)?”
@Elizabeth, you said:
Maybe it’s semantics, but if they helped form who you are today, how can they be “separate” from you—aren’t they a part of you? Time gives us the opportunity to better understand the impacts—good, bad and all muddled up—that our primary relationships have had, but I don’t think it is healthy or realistic to think we can completely disassociate ourselves from them. For better or worse, they are a part of us.
Maybe I’m being naïve here, but honestly don’t understand how that could happen, especially if they’re, well, dead. Does that mean a widow(er) would be expected to not have an active relationship with their former in-laws, or friends they shared with their late spouse? What about children? Are they expected to not talk about their late mother or father, or see their grandparents? Not have pictures around the house? Should the widow(er) bite their tongue and not share experiences they had with their late spouse when they are related to the conversation at hand? To me, that just seems, well, weird and, again, driven by some pretty powerful insecurities. (“Well, my late wife and I went there once on vacation and it was a horrible, but I didn’t want to offend you so I didn’t mention it.”) I can see how a living ex-girlfriend/boyfriend or husband/wife could really be “in the way” of a new relationship, but, otherwise, I guess I don’t get it.
Now, if a widow or widower are simply not emotionally available, that’s something else, but so many non-widowed people live, love, parent and die that way, it certainly doesn’t seem to me to have anything to do with widowhood. My guess is, they were that way before their spouse died, too. (FWIW, I’ve never put my late wife or our marriage on a pedestal. Both were far from perfect, and frankly learning from what was not so great is another way in which I think widows and widowers have a lot to offer a potential partner.)
Apparently, not all of them are positive, either.
Well said Jay. I couldn’t have put it better myself.
I will add one thing however. As far as ‘taking control of the relationship’ is concerned, that wouldn’t be possible in a healthy relationship of any kind, whether a widow/widower were involved or not. We can only take control of our actions as an individual, and if we are to expect others to work with us through our personal foibles and failings, we must pay the same courtesy to those we love.
Widowhood is not a disease that automatically renders the sufferer incapable of negotiation, cooperation, and understanding. Those are the basic tools of marriage and serious relating under any circumstance. Take it from a 3 x veteran, and only one of those ended in the death of a partner. The other two were just really lousy choices.
@Jay, thanks for your comments! I think you may have misunderstood some of what I was trying to convey (easy to do in an online forum). I can understand how you might not know how that could happen if someone is deceased. I am here to assure you, it can, and does, all the time. Fortunately, not in my marriage, but … some hard and honest work on both our parts went into making it that way. As far as relationships with former inlaws, children, etc. , I’m not sure what you mean at all by that… I can’t speak for others, but I’ve gone further out of my way to enhance those relationships than frankly either they, or my husband, have, Additionally, my husband has said I speak of the children’s mother more than he or they do. (this is true… I think it’s important that she be spoken of in the context of her life and their memories, rather than focusing solely on her passing and the grief aspect).
So no, I don’t think i speak from a place of insecurity. But i do speak from a place of experience (based on way too much detail and personal experiences to get into here.) But, just like I, never having been widowed, can’t fully understand first hand your perspective, neither can many widows or widowers understand some of the unique challenges that exist to be in my shoes and those like me. Fortunately for me, all of that is now second to the fact that I’ve married the best man on the planet
and it’s all good. last but not least, you’re absolutely right about the assumptions not all being positive… on either side of the fence. For every person who told me my husband was a “good catch” b/c he was widowed, 10 other people referred to the situation as “the perfect storm” and encouraged me not to pursue it. Thankfully, I didn’t listen. 
I thnk the best thing about this blog is being able to lsiten to and understand others’ perspectives… I know it has helped me tremendously! Best of luck to you going forward!
@Jay, you seem to be reading things that aren’t there and missing meaning that is. You also seem intent on arguing me out of what I know b/c I have lived it or making me feel stupid or wrong for sharing my opinion and my experiences with other women who are in relationships with widowed men. There is no point in continuing the conversation b/c you appear eager to find fault and pick me apart.
@Elizabeth, very well said. You should write the book, I think.
@Annie, I’m sorry you feel that way. I have quoted your actual words–disagreed with some and asked for clarification of others. If I’m missing your intended meaning, please enlighten me! Isn’t that what forums like this are for? The only things I’m reading are your own words. But if I misunderstood I’m all ears.
I certainly don’t want to make you “feel stupid or wrong for sharing your opinion”–I do think you have possibly formed opinions based on a certain set of experiences and frankly you don’t seem very open to the fact that many, many other peoples experiences of widows and widowers are very different. You’re not the only one who has “lived it.” But if you’re not interested discussing your ideas with someone who disagrees, I can take the hint!
@Elizabeth, I believe you when you say “it can happen,” but you didn’t provide me with any examples, so I remain unenlightened. I brought up the issues of in-laws and children because I wondered if that was what you meant. Otherwise, I’m glad you appreciate my comments and perspective.
This thread jumped out at me because, frankly, it was so out of sync with the widows and widowers I have come to know on my journey. They are easily some of the most insightful, kind, honest, funny, self-aware and ethical people I have ever known in my life. I have seen the power of our shared experience of loss to bring us together, helping each other and those around us, as well as ourselves. I sincerely hope that, someday, all of you can, too.
@Jay You’re correct that every widow and widower are different. Keep in mind the purpose of this post (and all widower related posts) is to help women dating widowers ID widowers who aren’t ready to move on and simply filling a hold in their heart.
I’m glad you and your widow/widower friends aren’t like that but there are many widowres who are. I’ve got over 1000 emails over the years that will back me up.
Being a widow/widower may give us some experince that others don’t have but, like Annie said, that doesn’t give us an excuse to use our grief or widow(er) status to behavie badly. I can’t speak for widows but I can say it happens far too often with widowers.
I see nothing wrong with a widow(er) putting the past behind them when they start a new relationship. Yes, the past made us who we are but it’s damn hard to have a relationship when the dead spouse keeps getting in the way. (Same with single or divoced people who let past relationships get in the way of current ones.) This life is for the living and looking forward, not looking back.
Amazing. Here I’ve been on this earth for almost a half-century and yet I had no idea that “widowers who aren’t ready to move on” were such a problem! And even more curious that it is only a “problem” for women dating widowers, not men dating widows. Who knew?
As far as “putting the past behind them,” I would be interested in “IDing” (is there a blood test or something?) people who are able to so neatly and cleanly compartmentalize their lives, so I can avoid them like the plague! My past, present and future are mixed up and blended in a messy soup-stew that is always changing; hopefully I’m learning from it, it often whacks me upside the head, and even more often makes be bust out laughing, but it is certainly never dull. Even if I could find a box marked “Past” I’m sure I wouldn’t want to lock anything up in it. Knowing me, I might accidentally lock my car keys inside it and then I’d be in a real pickle!
@Jay, I’m a bit reluctant to give specific examples b/c my own experiences are rather personal and frankly, still a bit ouchy – - although time has helped that a lot.
A few examples (I’ll mix my own in with others to protect the innocent and the not-so-innocent, Lol) would include: Leaving the late spouse’s voice on the answering machine’s outbound message… after remarrying. Discussing burial plans with your new spouse and advising that it never occurred to you to be buried with them… after all, the other spouse was first you know. How about an email to tell an old friend about your upcoming remarriage, and in it, one or two lines about your soon-to-be spouse, but several paragraphs about your late spouse and all the ways she would have approved of your finance., etc Hmmm, a personal favorite… a widower who told several friends that he felt the spirit of his deceased wife had “given him” his new wife to make up for having gone thru her illness and death. (I know both, and trust me, wife #1 would not have chosen wife #2 Lol) Hmmm, lemme see, making the late spouse’s family the first priority…above the widower’s biological family AND far more important than getting to know his new wife’s family. Oh yes, and of course, making sure that honoring events and dates related to the former marriage and/or first spouse’s death are always more important than anything going on with your present spouse or marriage.
And of course there’s the ever popular referring to the late spouse as “my wife” – - when you’re WITH your wife. Her checkbook in the kitchen drawer, her coat in the linen closet? Her files in the new wife’s file cabinet? Her lipsticks in the drawers? (Again, all AFTER remarrying.) I could go on for pages, but don’t want to bore anyone. Suffice to say that these issues are very real. And while it’s painful, no question, to deal with these things when you’re dating, it’s FAR FAR more painful to not know about them until AFTER you’ve taken vows before God with this person.
@Annie, Lol, I feel like I could write one at this point… I struggled for so long with so many conflicting feelings (feeling guilty for wanting to be the only wife in my marriage, feeling insensitive for expecting same, confused b/c his words and actions were often at odds with one another, anger (yes, I said it, anger) at being second (or third or fourth or whatever) in the lineup b/c honoring the past (and the other former inlaws) was always paramount to everything else. Grief of my own, b/c I was, at first worried I’d married someone I loved with my whole heart, and might accidentally have become someone’s “gap fill.”
As I said before, we’ve worked through most of the early issues, and the guilt my husband had that fueled most of his conflicting behaviors. But, it’s people like you and Abel, and other strong and confident advisors, who really helped me get past feeling guilty and mean for standing up for myself and expecting to be the ONLY wife in THIS marriage. This does NOT mean I am insecure (quite the opposite in fact, I felt insecure before, when I wasn’t advocating for myself).
And ito be clear, it doesn’t mean I resent his first wife or her family or the children or anything else of that nature. In fact, do my level best to include her family in all things (in fact I spend my holidays with them, they were at our “immediate family only” wedding, etc…. I look for opportunities to help the children remember happy times with their mom, I encourage them to talk about her when we’re doing things that they used to do with her, etc. I look for ways to deal with the situation in a HEALTHY way, rather than in a way that keeps people focused on death, or that leads to the kids identifying themselves as tragic victims. While her death was a tragedy, no question, as a mother, I can only assume that’s what another mother would want for her children… to honor her memory, and to go on with leading happy lives… and even better if another woman comes along who will love and care for them since she can’t.
Soooooooo, sorry, that was a very long winded explanation (careful what you ask for!) but suffice to say, Jay, not all widowers are as well adjusted as you seem to be
… AND, not all second wives are insecure or selfish or any of those things, simply because they refuse to allow their current marital commitments to be anything less than 100% what marriage was intended to be… a commitment between TWO people.
Hope this helps to explain. And I promise to be much more brief in the future!
The widower I am married to definitely had relationship patterns that were consistent in spite of his widower status. On the other hand, his incomplete grieving process caused a lot of problems.
What we both had to come to terms with was that we had both been “damaged” by our losses; his by death and mine by divorce.
Our greatest struggle now is “blending” our families and lifestyles. It is not a “traditional” marriage, which creates issues in of itself. I wrote a couple of poems during our courtship and marriage that expresses struggle and hope.
Our Journey
Two souls wounded and incomplete
Struggled to journey on
Blinded by pain and disbelief
Hearing Death’s sweet song
Met upon the dangerous path
Resisted each others eyes
That reflected loss’ aftermath
And their desire to die
A touch while passing along
Awakened hope anew
And from destruction’s song
A sustaining strength grew
A new direction was taken
Their lives now entwined
But old wounds still aching
They needed to bind
Paula
Copyright 2010
Loss of the Fairytale
Misshapen by past events,
And haunted by memories,
I found my prince,
facing emotional bankruptcy.
No horse or carriage,
No castle in the hills,
I entered into marriage,
A ceremony with no frills.
The poverty a stark contrast,
To the wealth he had before.
Treasures from this past,
He clung to and adored.
I long for his devotion,
And imagine what could be
If his bankruptcy of emotion
Was enriched by the lottery!
Until then I wait patiently,
And savor every moment God has given me!
Paula
Copyright 2010
The “Loss of the Fairytale” was generated because I “settled” for a marriage ceremony that was nondescript. It was my mistake. However, it was also the result of my widower not wanting to participate in any wedding event memory making. When he accidentally deleted our wedding photos from his computer, it just seemed surreal! However, I realized that I was holding on too tightly to them. God gave them back as I had synchronized my daughter’s iTouch a couple of weeks before and they were stored on it. He was devastated when it happened but realized how much he cared when he did that.
wow…it would be easy to go on and on…there are just so many possible issues…ttyl
One clarifier…. when I say “not all widowers are as well adjusted as that” I realized it may have come across wrong. That’s not intended as a slam or an insult or anything along those lines. Most of these things stem from very real, human feelings of grief, confusion, loneliness, etc. etc. etc. Doesn’t make the person bad or wrong or any of those things… as I said before, my husband and I had some issues early on with these things, and remember, I married the best man on the planet!
So just to be clear, my comment meant that not all widowers have worked through things as well as Jay seems to have . And to speak to the point he and Annie both made.. the same could be said for folks who aren’t widows or widowers too! (Lord knows I have my share of things that are still “adjusting!”) Just didn’t want what I said to be taken out of context… Thx!
…btw…the smilie face by the one sentence is because we are always talking about winning the lottery!
@Jay I’m glad you’ve found someone who doesn’t mind your “messy soup-stew”. Whatever works for you and her is fine. We’re all here to learn from each other.
Please understand that just because others have a different take on grieving and moving on doesn’t make them wrong. So if you have something to share about what’s worked for you — great. Please share. Comments directed at others telling them that they’re wrong or don’t get it won’t be tolerated further.
@Annie — Thanks for your comments and everything you share with those on the board. You have an unique perspective. Sometimes I wish I could express mysellf as clearly as you.
@Paula Thanks for sharing your stories and poems. They’re great.
@Jay…I think your perspective is valuable and it’s certainly useful in a forum such as this. It’s important to have the other side of the story told as well….but as our host has indicated, the purpose of this particular blog is to help the women who deeply love and are devoted to widowers, who, for whatever reason, may be clinging to vestiges of their past rather than fully embracing the present and future. I’ve followed Abel’s blog off and on for a few years now and have found it comforting and helpful to read the different stories and perspectives shared here, and maybe, be able to contribute every once in a while and help out some of my fellow sisters along the path.
It is exceedingly difficult to truly identify with a certain situation until you’ve lived it/walked it yourself–I recognize that. The beauty of this particular forum is that it addresses a component of the whole widower/moving on/remarriage thing that is so often neglected or mentioned only in passing when the subject is addressed. You’re right in that since divorce is so rampant these days, so much of “moving on/self help/advice” is geared towards divorcees…those who remarry widowers are a much smaller population–but that doesn’t make us less important. It is precisely because it is such a unique and difficult situation that we gather together for support, encouragement and advice.
I agree that we’re all products of our past experiences, but the new wife/love of a widower deserves to feel as if she is number one in his heart. Period. If he cannot truly give her that, then ultimately, is that fair to her? She’s thrown all her chips in and he’s holding back because he is still grieving and not able to fully give his heart to her. I don’t think that anyone is suggesting that a father never mention his kids’ mother to them or cut off all contact with LW’s family, but there is a balance that needs to be achieved and the new wife/love needs to feel secure in the W’s love and loyalty to her.
Elizabeth gave several really good examples of things that a widower might do–maybe even unconsciously–that cause the new wife/love to feel like a “consolation prize”, second best, etc. It’s a minefield out there (or can be) and even in the best of circumstances (E–I take issue that you married the best guy on earth–I did!!
patience and sensitivity are going to be key.
One small example of the silly things that can set off a trigger of hurt and insecurity….and then I’ll shut up
Before the holidays, hubby and I were cleaning up at his old house from where we recently moved and I came across an old writing assignment paper that his second son had written a couple of years ago (he’s a college jr now). He has written “My dad is now remarried but believes that he already had his one true love, but he’s had to move on. We all have.” Now, I love my stepson and we get along great but seeing this really, really stung. Hubby assured me that it was not the case and he said all kinds of similar things to his kids when they were reeling from the tragedy of their mom’s loss–to comfort them. We’ve been married going on 5 years and are very happy together. And I don’t want to be in competition with LW; I simply want to be his true love…NOW. In the present and hopefully many many years into the future.
Annie, I hope you keep on posting. I think you have an extremely valuable perspective–having been on both sides of loss. Thank you for your words and for shooting straight.
Sorry for the long post…if anyone’s still reading
@Beth wow…that last thing you talked about–wanting to be his true love…that hit home with me. I know that’s what I’ve been feeling and dealing with, but you just put the words on my thoughts. It’s so easy to think about his late wife being the true love. I was a bridesmaid in their wedding, I watched them give their vows…it does freak me out sometimes, but BF and I have talked through so many through things and plan to keep on talking through more and more. That’s how you get through–communicating. I know that in time, if things work out as I see them headed, he will call me his true love in the NOW. She was his true love before.
@Abel, I don’t know if you have ever honed in on this topic before (you probably have, but I’ve skimmed over it in my brain or it didn’t sink in)–but I’d be interested in knowing what your take is on what Beth just said. About wanting to be his true love-NOW and in the future, but not wanting to dishonor how he felt for her THEN or compete with her. I know all of our situations are different, but this is something I am personally struggling with. I want him to honor and remember her and at the same time, I want to be what she was to him, but different.
@Tami — That sounds like a good Widower Wednesday topic. I’ll schedule it in.
@Abel, I have yet to find someone else (besides my late wife) who embraces (not just tolerates) my “messy soup-stew,” but it’s a requirement for me and I would expect them to require the same of me. I believe an honest, authentic life is a messy one. That’s never an excuse for bad behavior, but it is the real world, in my opinion, and trying to pretend otherwise will only create further pain and sufferring.
While I would certainly not tell someone how to grieve, I do think there are certain truths about human psychology that we ignore at our peril, and I won’t hesitate to tell someone if I think that’s what they are doing. (And, again, I expect the same.) Denial is not just a river in Egypt!
It seems to me that plenty of folks here, including you, have well-defined ideas about what it means to “move on” and feel that this is something all widowers (again, you don’t mention widows?) should do. If that’s the same as telling me it’s wrong to not “move on” (according to your definition), how long do you intend to “tolerate” that?
Honestly, I feel like I’ve slipped down into a rabbit hole, into a world where people are expected to “move on” in order to make others feel more comfortable. This is something I flat-out disagree with. Again, I’m not saying grief is an excuse for bad behavior, but neither is divorce or anything else. If anyone is having problems with a widowed partner, they should be dealt with openly, honestly and with as much emotional and psychological awareness and understanding of the issues as possible. But I don’t think that can happen very well if there is a one-size-fits-all notion of “moving on” that’s going to be assumed and never questioned. But, if that’s the consensus here, then I’m happy to mosey on down the interwebs. Now that’s the kind of “moving on” I can get behind!
@ Tami @ Beth…. I agree that would be a great topic to explore. I have had similar questions early on, but wasn’t feeling open enough to put it out there. So thanks for being braver than me!
I think – after much consideration, Lol – that what I struggled with, and I think others may struggle with, was this: we are all brought up to think that there is “one true love” or one “soul mate” out there for us all. So if you really embrace that idea, and then marry a widow or widower, it automatically puts you into the mindset of “well, was it her or is it me?” And, as everyone has said on this site… no one wants to think they’re married to someone who loves someone else more. Period. (Call it selfish, insecure, whatever you want, but it’s honest. We all want to be top dog – now and going forward – with and for our spouses.)
The thing is, thinking that there’s “one true love” or “one soul mate” is more romantic than actual. In reality, there are many who could be that for us. If we extricate ourselves from the romantic-ness of that idea, and think about it practically, there’s no way that there could be just one person for each of us…. think about it… if just one person goofed and married the wrong person, wouldn’t it then have a domino effect, messing it up for everyone else from there on out? (Lol) There are just too many phenomenal people in this world to think it’s a once and done proposition. (That being said, I still think my husband is the best guy on the planet!)
My husband once told me that he always assumed his first wife was his “soul mate” b/c they had met young and been married for a long time. Until we met. And while our meeting of course does not undo that he loved her (no more than it cancels out anyone I’ve loved in the past), he no longer feels that way about his first marriage… b/c he realizes that this marriage is equally strong, loving, happy, etc.
And frankly, who’s to say that just b/c a marriage comes second, it’s somehow “less than” or something someone has to do to move on. As Jay said, a lot of what happened in his first marriage caused him to learn and grow, and he feels will help him be an even better partner to someone down the road. Who’s to say a second marriage might not be an even stronger and happier union than the first, b/c of what each partner brings to it from the past? Just b/c someone was married for a long time does not automatically = being married to a person who best suits them. As I said earlier, people stay in (and leave) marriages for a variety of reasons, and not all of them are romantic!
So part of getting past feeling badly about all of that, I think, is stepping back and realizing that just b/c someone else came first, or was there longer, in no way means they were “more in love” or were “each others’ soul mates” or whatever. Their relationship (good bad or indifferent) was theirs, then, period. It’s arrival on the scene first, or it’s duration, in no way defines or limits what your marriage can or will be. They’re two separate things, apples and oranges. (But, I realize it’s not always easy to think / feel that way!)
I’m really interested in other’s thoughts on this! (But be kind, it’s an ouchy subject to bare one’s soul about!)
@Elizabeth, I agree with you on so many points!
I think we can have more than one “soul-mate” in a lifetime, absolutely. I do also think that because we (hopefully) evolve and grow, that we are often capable of making much better choices (romantic and otherwise) when we are older. And so I think it is very possible, likely, even, that two older people can find each other and create a better union than they could have if they had met when they were younger. Back then, they might have ruled each other out of consideration, for reasons they would now laugh at, or have completely blown the opportunity because they didn’t have the skills or maturity or knowledge they needed to make it work.
Though I don’t believe in an anthropomorphic, conscious afterlife, I’ve joked (though not to a prospective partner!) that if my late wife could look down on me dating, she’d be hopping mad: “Oh, sure. I put up with you to hell and back, for 20 years, and now that you’re all “evolved,” here you are carrying on with all these, these… women!” Frankly, there’s some truth to that, but of course, all I’d have to say back would be, “That’s fine, dear, but if you hadn’t gone off and DIED on me, we wouldn’t be HAVING this conversation, now would we!” That’d shut her up!
I think the universe throws all kinds of stuff at us; some things we can handle better than others. We do the best we can with what we’ve got. Not to sound like an old fart, but, when you get to a certain point, you learn you can be forgiving and understanding, without being a punching bag. It’s tough; I think more so for women, who are socialized to be the pleasers and to minimize their own needs. Having healthy boundaries that don’t end up looking like the Berlin Wall? Good luck! Trying to make a relationship work with anyone–widow, widower, divorced, whatever–isn’t easy. One thing’s for certain–at some point, both we and our partners will likely want to cite the title of one of my late wife’s songs: “You’re No PIcnic!”
So, my heart goes out to all who have the courage to love. Whatever your story–you rock!
@Jay…i think the term “move one” perhaps is a misnomer…what i wanted my husband to do is to open his grasp on the past…by gripping so tightly the treasures of his past relationship, there was no room in his hands for our relationship…
…i believe fear is our biggest hurdle…for him he is afraid of losing someone so close so he put up barriers to a close relationship and self-sabotaged it early on…and still does at times…for me, i am afraid of being betrayed again after investing 18 years in the ex who told me he had never ever loved me but married me because i was the “perfect” wife type and to please his parents by having grandchildren…
…we have the usual struggles as well…the blended family…trying to merge two completely different lifestyles…us both being completely stubborn! LOL!
…at first i didn’t know what to really expect of him, but i certainly expected the “usual” type of marriage…however, i didn’t anticipate him not wanting to do the “guy” things in our marriage…we were both brought up in households that were what i call “traditional” but he had no interest in taking care of my car or anything else that i brought into the marriage…i don’t know how many times i heard “i have no owner interest in your (name of item).” On the other hand, i had taken on most of the household chores and “women” things…(it is really amusing to me as i write this because it seems so old fashion)
…so i took it as an opportunity to grow and began taking care of all my own things…and came to the conclusion that i really didn’t “feel” married anymore…i do love him very much, but outside of sex and conversation nothing more was being shared…and this is our current struggle…are we husband and wife…or simply roommates?
…and this is even more difficult for me because 98% of my belongings are in storage, so our home doesn’t feel like “mine” too…and the few attempts i have made of adding some of “me” to our home has been rejected…i have given a lot of my belongings away because i would rather someone enjoy them instead of sitting in storage…
…i guess my biggest concern is if my husband will ever really “make room” for “me”…and not just the things we buy that becomes “ours”…but the items i have collected along the way that are not “relationship” oriented but represent my life’s journey…
…so “moving on” can mean so many different things for all of us…however i realized after telling my youngest daughter she had to let go of some of her “old” clothes to make room for “new” clothes that i understood that is what “moving on” is to me…letting go of some of the “old” to make room for the “new”…i gave her a box to put stuff in she wanted to store because she couldn’t bear to “let it go” but we gave away the rest of the clothes and toys…i believe life is a series of “renewals.”
…thank you for your input Jay!
Hi Paula. I’d like to start by saying that I can’t possibly understand what it must really be like to be experiencing the post widow marriage from the perspective of the unwidowed spouse as I’ve never been in that situation. I will talk about post widowhood marriage from my perspective and say that asking a grieving spouse to leave the memory of a dead spouse in the past before remarriage for me would be like asking a grieving parent to leave the experiences and memories of a dead child in the past before considering having another. It’s never going to happen. It doesn’t mean you and your relationship don’t mean the world to him, as it’s a completely separate entity he is grieving for. You both must make room for the needs of the
other and try not to feel you are being judged as a ‘secondary’ wife if your feelings are given the proper consideration and you are his number one priority in most situations.
Remember that you cannot know the pain of losing a spouse, and praise God you don’t. I hope you never do.
@Jay, thanks for your comments! My thought was that we (all of us posters) weren’t necessarily too far off from one other in what we were saying, it’s just sometimes difficult to clearly express really emotional concepts in an online medium… esp nebulous concepts like “moving on” and such. Would be much easier to articulate than type, for sure!
It’s funny some of the things you said, b/c that’s exactly the conversation my husband and I have had! He used to say “Why didn’t WE meet when we were younger, why didn’t WE get married then and have our whole lives together instead of later?” and things like that… and I had to tell him, “Because I wouldn’t have dated you then!!” Ha! (He was quite wild in his younger days, and I was rather straight laced, the perpetual good girl … so I doubt either of us would have been open to the other back then.
Interestingly, he told me that when he was widowed, there were some very specific things he wanted in a wife if he were to ever consider marrying again…. and several of those qualities were ones that he wished had existed in his first marriage. Having married at 23, he didn’t have the depth of self knowledge (nor did she) to really choose a partner who complemented one another. So I would have to agree with you, based on my experiences and on his…it’s defintely easier to get it right when you’ve had the benefit of time, experience and reflection. (I hesitate to say maturity b/c I’m not sure I’m quite there yet)
I laughed at your envisioning your former wife’s comments if she were to “look down” now. I told my husband if his former wife (who I had met – professionally – years meeting him) were to be “looking down” I think her comment would go be something of this nature: “The chatty blonde one? Really?” Lol And I’ve told my husband, if anything ever happened to me, all I ask is that if he remarries, that she at least have a butt bigger than mine.
Have a great day!
Jay….my two cents here: I think that “moving on” is highly personal and what it means to one person might not mean the same to another. What it means to me, is that my husband fully embraced a new relationship with me and was willing to close the chapter on the past. He was married to her for 17 years and they had three children together….of course he still mentions her to them and her name will come up in conversation from time to time. He’s gone through all her stuff and given alot of her personal things/clothing that his daughter wants to her. The rest has gone to Goodwill, whatever her sister and family didn’t want to keep. Jewlrey–most of that again my stepdaughter is geting. Pictures–there are a couple of boxes of photos that need to be sorted through and organized–(on my list of things to do is to make a nice album for each of his three kids) My stepdaughter has some pictures of her mom in her room. His kids are old enough to drive and can visit her gravesite as they please. (In the first year after her death, long before we met, he took the three of them weekly.) Some of the household items (kitchen stuff mostly) have migrated to the new house because I am ultimately practical and have zero qualms about using the same serving bowl/dish/spoons, etc, that she used.
But there are no memorials in our new home together. He is married to me, and the fact that he is a former widower sometimes comes up and it is what it is. He’s not clinging to her or their relationship. He’s fully living in the present and I can’t tell you how much I appreciate that about him.
Your comment about the messy “stew” that makes you who you are today….Absolutely. I told my husband early on in our relationship that I wasn’t a fool and that I know that part of the reason he is so affectionate/tender is because he has learned alot over the years and grown as a man as a result of his marriage to her and her passing. I’ve accepted that is part of who he is and why he is the way he is. And I am grateful to her for having put in (sometimes) “hard time” with him that has given me the result.
So, all that to say that there is no hard definition of moving on, and even less of a “standard timeline” Because like you’ve mentioned earlier, each circumstance and person is different. But I think what we can agree on here, is like Elizabeth said, no person wants to feel like “second” in their marriage/relationship. Yes, the past helps shape who we are, but once a new commitment is made, that person and relationship become the priority.
(also, your comment about widows earlier–you know that women tend to be far more likely to seek support and congregate with others, share stories, etc. I think also that widows tend to remain single for quite a bit longer than do widowers prior to moving onto another relationship–purely anecdotal, I know, but I believe stats would back that up. Part of that is we tend to have better social networks outside of marriage–girlfriends, etc–than do many men. Since a widower may be alot more likely to enter a new relationship very soon prior to fully grieving, hence, there seem to be more “widower relationship” problems than the reverse.)
You seem to have a healthy outlook on life and very positive…that’s a good thing. I hope you do find new love and am sorry for your loss.
@Simone, so well said. Very moving.
@Elizabeth, I’m seriously laughing out loud! “The chatty blond one? Really?” Hysterical!!
@Paula, that sounds really, really hard. My heart goes out to you. I think Elizabeth is right–a lot is our choice of words. Like Simone said, “you both must make room for the needs of the other.” Trying to “hold on” to the trappings, the physical leftovers of what was will never bring that person or relationship back. (Listen to me talk–I’m drowning in my late wife’s c**p; but I also wouldn’t even have a romantic-interest, if I had one right now, over to the house as it stands right now; to saying nothing of marrying and blending households.)
My kids don’t want to get rid of *anything*–and this was before their mom died. I tell them frequently, and I think they get it, “Your momma lives on in our hearts, our memories, the ways that she changed us and everyone she met. That is something that will never wear out, or get lost, or grown out of. We will carry her with us forever.” But it is a hard, slow process. I can’t imagine how hard it would be for you to be married to someone who sounds like they are not really willing to even start that process, in some ways. Ouch. (((HUGS)))
@Elizabeth: Couldn’t agree more with your points made above about how “the one” and “soulmate” are over-romanticized to the point of causing alot of hangups in both men and women….my hubby will say things like that to me too, like “I wish I’d met you back when…” But of course that’s silly. My first marriage was really bad and my ex is a piece of work, but I don’t regret that marriage to him because I have three beautiful kids from that relationship. Plus, it’s made me appreciate so much more what I have now. And hubby is the product of his prior relationships too….life doesn’t make sense. I love my stepkids and love the relationship that my stepdaughter has with my daughter (priceless!!) and I’ll think sometimes how sad it is that they would never have met if she (SD) hadn’t lost her mom. Anyway, I digress….
@ Paula: regarding your situation…is it possible to sell/trade in some of the bigger things like vehicles and buy new ones together? Is moving a possibility? I know the market generally stinks and it may not be a practical option, but I think being in a new (to both of you) place where you set up house might really help define a fresh start. Liked your comment about life being a series of “renewals” How true that is! And also, your philosophy about making room for the new by moving the old stuff on. I tell my girls that ALL THE TIME regarding clothes and shoes…timeless wisdom
@Jay I don’t discuss widow issues on this blog because 1) I have no experience being a widow and 2) widows and widowers grieve and “move on” differently. There are plenty of other widow-centric blogs out there that widows can visit for insight on this subject (or they can read Annie’s insightful comments). Widower Wednesday posts are specifically for women dating widowers and widowers looking to find another happy, fulfilling relationship.
@Simone – No one here is asking to leave the memory of the dead spouse in the past. The women of this blog understand that the widower will think about her from time to time and that his relationship with her made him the man he is today. All they’re asking is to be #1 in his heart. If making room for the needs of the widower means feelings like #2 then that’s too high of a price IMHO.
Finally, having lost both a child and a spouse, I think your analogy is a bit off. I don’t know of a single person who would feel their relationship threatened because they were grieving the loss of a child. And frankly, the death of a child is something you never really get over. Spouses are different.
@Simone – I have helped my husband store his late wives possessions in a cedar chest that has a prominent place in our office. We have discussed their distribution should he pass before me. It was extremely hard for me during this process because he would reminisce about their special memories. I learned a lot about him during this process as well. I would never ask him to give up any part of his memories or these special treasures.
However, it did cause a base for comparison to our relationship. Previously, he saved special event ticket stubs, photos of the special events and other memoribilia. However, when we attended a similar function this year, our first time together at such event, he did not want to get a photo taken by the photographer and left our ticket stubs on the table. I retrieved the ticket stubs and we have a picture because I asked another couple at the table to take one with our camera. His actions were so contrary to those of his past that I had to ask him why he chose not to “capture” the memory by saving these items. He never really gave me an answer…
Before Christmas when he didn’t want to participate in decorating for the season, this being our first, it hurt again…especially when he visited his late wives memorial online that very same night around the time i was decorating the Christmas tree by myself…i took it as like saying to me ” i would really rather be with her, but i can’t so you will do.”
He and I have talked at length about this and there really has been no resolution…if i want to remember a certain event, it is up to me to retrieve the memoribilia and initiate photos.
So all i really have ever wanted him to do is to want to make some memories with me as well…
@ Wow, Paula, I’m sorry, that must be such a difficult situation. It doesn’t sound like your expectations are out of line at all, and in fact, you sound as though you’ve been more than understanding and more than accommodating. I’m not sure how you (or he) feels about counseling, but if you’re open to it, i would highly recommend it. It sounds like he’s still (actively) grieving and it’s making it hard for him to fully be a husband to you. My husband and I went to counseling (separately first, then together) – not on this subject specfiically, but some related… and it made a remarkable difference for us both. I highly recommend it. (Esp if you can find a male counselor, it may make your husband feel more comfortable).
@Beth, your situation sounds so much like mine… if you’d ever like to email or chat offline … I’d love to ask your opinion on a couple of other things too. It’s like you’re in my head with the responses you post!! Thanks so much for being so honest!
…i just have to say this OUT LOUD because it bothers me so much!
…i do not know the pain of losing a spouse to death…but i lost one to divorce.
…i have lost 4 children to miscarriage
…i have lost both my parents and two of my brothers to death…i have lost two of my best friends to death….
…so to say that i do not understand the pain of the loss to death is just sooooo wrong!
thx…had to get that off my chest.
Paula,
I am sorry for all of the loss in your life….I’ll say that you most certainly have a grasp on understanding what that means. Sorry if I missed it, but, did you say how long your husband was widowed when you met him and started dating? I don’t mean to make you repeat your posts but….it does indeed sound like he’s still actively grieving and not fully “there” for your relationship. And who wants to feel like the replacement? I’m with Elizabeth on suggesting counseling. If he refuses, there may be a need for some lines drawn in the sand.
Elizabeth–absolutely! I’m ******* for email and also on FB. Look forward to hearing from you!
Editor’s Note: Elizabeth — I’ve removed your email address for privacy. I’ll forward it on to Paula.
@Paula, I am sorry you are having a hard time right. It is presumptuous of widowed folk to downplay other losses. But, they are not the same b/c each relationship has it’s own set of expectations/hopes and histories. I lost my daughter’s twin early in the pregnancy and had two miscarriages earlier. In some ways, losing that first baby hurt more than losing the others and the death of their father later on. My father’s death has stuck with me in ways my first husband’s hasn’t too b/c we were married for a short time and my dad, well, that’s a lifetime. I am not in the camp that widowhood is the pinnacle of loss and not everyone thinks that way. In the first year that my husband now and I were married, he was pretty uninterested in holidays. And he visited, and commented, on his late wife’s online memorial on important to them dates. It was weird feeling. I’d moved into his home and her things were still around. I tried to be a good sport but eventually it got to me and I burst into tears one day, telling him I didn’t feel like this was my home. He asked me what I wanted. I told him. He made it so. Speaking up and asking/telling is the only solution that I know of. My husband was widowed just ten months when we married (I was 15 months). There were still things to sort and “lay to rest”. But it can be done. Patience and remembering to take care of you as much as you take care of him is what worked for us. It will be okay. Marriage is a long run (hopefully). Gotta approach it as if it was a marathon.
@Abel said…
Do you mean simply because widows are women and widowers are men? Seriously? People do and should grieve differently, but to divide us into two distinct groups and to assert differences in how we grieve based on gender is startlingly archaic. (And, based on my relationships with widows and widowers alike, completely inconsistent with my experience.)
Well, you’ve hit the crux of the difference in our outlooks: I don’t think “spouses are different.” Not in the fundamental way that you seem to. I don’t think one does (or should, frankly) “get over” ANY significant loss in your life. To claim that you have, or that someone should, sounds way too much like denial and stuffing one’s own feelings because they are not acceptable to others. We know that doing those things plays a fundamental role in alcoholism and other addictions, so, quite bluntly, I don’t think it is responsible to recommend them to others.
That doesn’t mean that the way we grieve a loss doesn’t change and evolve over time; it doesn’t mean that the loss gets in the way of living the life we want to live, forever. And it certainly doesn’t mean we can use it as an excuse for bad behavior. But a loss like that changes us forever, and I do not believe that we ever “get over” it. We’ll never be who or what we were, as if it had never happened. And I, for one, wouldn’t want to be. And someone who wanted me to would never be a good match for me.
I also think this recurring theme of being “#1″ or “#2″ is really missing the point–it’s like comparing apples and ball bearings. Both are round, but beyond that… I will always love my late wife. But I can also love another, fully and unconditionally. When we have another child, does it diminish the love we have for our other children? Of course not. Like the song we sung in our kids’ preschool: “Love grows, one by one, two by two and four by four. Love grows, round like a circle and comes back knocking at your front door.” I have *more* love to give and more ability to love because of how much I loved and still love my late spouse. It’s not either/or.
@Paula, I don’t think I did, but I certainly never meant to say that you “don’t understand.” As I stated above, I think our serious losses have much more in common than many people seem willing or able to acknowledge. In my view, our shared experiences of loss bring us together; of course, there are differences, but I don’t like seeing them used to divide us, or to say, “this loss you should get over, but this one you should not.” Of course, *how* one processes each loss, and whether or not that leaves room for another person to play that role in our life, is going to be unique, and, frankly, I think your husband’s behavior is simply unacceptable. But I would never say “you don’t understand.” In fact, those who love us usually understand better than most; sometimes better than we understand ourselves. That’s one reason we need each other. Take care.
@Jay — As Annie said, “you seem intent on arguing me out of what I know b/c I have lived it or making me feel stupid or wrong for sharing my opinion and my experiences.” So, like Annie, I’m done sharing my side. You’re free to disagree all you want. I really don’t care. When you are able to find love and marry again, let us know. I think we’d all like to know how the new wife deals with your soup/stew of emotions.
@Jay… I honestly think that i’ts virtually impossible to understand unless you’ve been in the situation. I have two close friends who (prior to my meeting and marrying my husband) who have been in similar shoes. One whose father remarried after the loss of her mother (my friend is an adult in her 40′s) and one whose sister passed way, and her sister’s widower remarried. Both of these friends had really diffiicult times with the changes their father / former brother in law made in order to be emotionally prepared to be fully committed to someone new.
And guess what? I agreed with both of them, fully! I couldn’t understand it a bit! Flash forward 6 years… and now I”m on the other end of the situation, and my eyes are wide open. It’s not a right/wrong question or answer. It’s what works for the people in the situation. Me personally, I can read what you write and agree with you “on paper” so to speak, but real life emotions and real life don’t always work that way. One person put it to me this way once… that if it were me who were actively declaring my un-ending (active) love , devotion, commitment, memorializing, etc. for another person who wasn’t my spouse, it would be completely unacceptable, b/c the object of my affection is still living. But for some reason, if the individual is deceased, that changes things, and makes it acceptable – even expected – for a second spouse to accept that and to share the heart of his or her spouse with someone else. Last time I checked, the vows aren’t any different in our wedding than they were in his first one. Would he have accepted his first wife feeling that way about another? Would you? (again, I don’t mean not caring or not having love in your heart, but that’s different than actively engaged in a past relationship… even if emotionally.)
Again, I get it on paper, I really do… but in real life, it doesn’t always work that way. Interestingly, when my husband and I had discussions about some of these issues early on, and I presented it in a “would you be comfortable if I….. ” as it relates to my past relationships… he looked at things completely differently. (And let the record show, he was NOT one bit ok with it!) Lol Again, that by no means intimates that we don’t care about our past or people we’ve loved, or that they don’t matter. But having that love in the past (vs. an active part of your marraige to someone else) – two very different things.
So again, I think it truly is almost impossible to understand if you haven’t lived it….and that’s why I think folks on the site are struggling to understand you, and you, them. You sound like a really interesting person, and you have a l ot of interesting and positive thoughts to share. I just think if you’re wanting to influence folks…. a softer approach might work better.
Take care!
Jay, I don’t know if you read my long post directed primarily towards you above, #37, but women and men DO grieve differently. We process emotions differently. No, you can’t put 100% of men and 100% of women into exact, neat boxes, but there are documented and very widely accepted differences in the way men deal with emotions, to include grief, as opposed to the way women do. As I said before, I think the BIGGEST difference is that men tend to get involved with others way too early in their grief journey, before they are truly ready. I’d argue that some marry before they are ready to fully commit. And then you have….all these relationship issues as a result.
Do widows remarry before they are ready? I’m sure that some do. But generally speaking, women do better “on their own” than men tend to, simply because of the stronger social networks that we build and maintain. Because of that, a woman will grieve “alone” (meaning while single, not in an intimate relationship) while men tend to rush into another intimate relationship right away with unresolved grief. I’m not a social scientist, therapist or an expert of any kind, nor do I claim to be. But I know that I have many, many good girl friends that I can lean on in time of crisis and my husband, honestly, doesn’t have those close bonds with any of his very few guy pals. He’s got me. With LW, he had her. When she was killed, he was left floundering like a fish out of water.
My husband started looking to date again 3 months out from LW’s death (they’d been married 17 years w/ 3 children) and her death was from an accident, no warning whatsoever. He became involved with a women he met online and was engaged 6 months after LW death. Around the 1 year anniversary of her death, he realized that he’d been moving too fast and was making huge life choices for the wrong reasons, called off the engagement, and just dated around for a bit until he met me two years later and we got serious.
That’s probably at least three cents worth there…
I appreciate everyone who is trying to share their experiences in a constructive way, even when we disagree.
@Abel, I certainly have no problem with you sharing your experiences; I do have a problem if I think you’re offering advice to others which I think is potentially damaging or misguided. As they say, we’re all entitled to our own opinions, but not our own facts. And enough about this has been so well-worn through studies of addiction, grief, etc., that we know what works and what doesn’t. And “moving on” because others expect it of you flat out doesn’t work. Should you marry someone who thinks you haven’t “moved on” enough to marry them? Of course not! Duh! But that’s not a “widower” problem. That’s a “not being honest with yourself or others” problem; a “not picking a partner that you’re on the same page with” problem. As Simone said, a “not communicating” problem. I see no good reason to single out widowers as pre-identified suspects for this, as it is demonstrated by people of all persuasions, including many that have been described here.
@Beth, yes, men and women can often process and do things very differently. But it is a very slippery slope. Should women be encouraged to not vote or make other important decisions during certain times of the month, even though we all *know* they are potentially more emotional and less rational? Should mothers not be hired or promoted the same as fathers, because we think they might be less able to put the needs of their job ahead of the needs of their child? No, of course not. So, let’s please treat widows and widowers and those who love them as individuals, not as categories that we “expect” certain kinds of failures from.
@Abel said, “There are plenty of other widow-centric blogs out there that widows can visit for insight on this subject…” I think it is worth pointing out that I have NEVER, not ONCE, been told or felt on a widow-focused blog or site that, because I was a widowER, that I was “different” or not welcome or should go somewhere else. You can rest assured that when I share my stories of love and loss, it will be in those forums that accept and embrace me (even though I also trust them to kick me in the a** when I need it).
“I think we’d all like to know how the new wife deals with your soup/stew of emotions.” Gee, now who sounds like they are “intent on arguing me out of what I know b/c I have lived it or making me feel stupid or wrong for sharing my opinion and my experiences”?
@Jay – I’m a widower and have been reading Able’s blog for several years now. You’re really misinterpreting what Able’s position is on grief and moving on. He’s NEVER encouraged a widower to “move on” because “others expect it.” All he’s ever said is that widowers who choose to date and make serious commitments to the women their dating should make the new women #1 in their heart, thoughts, and actions. I don’t understand why you’re so hell bent on misinterpreting his words and thoughts or nitpicking at his words.
I also find it insulting that you think Able is “offering advice to others which I think is potentially damaging or misguided” when you can’t provide any personal examples from your own dating life to back up your way of doing things. Instead of making abstract references to grief studies about “what works” why not share some of your own stories. (I think that’s what Able was calling you out on.)
I’ll take Able’s advice over yours or one of these studies you refer to any day. He’s remarried and has a successful marriage to Marathon Girl (six or seven years I think) and a new family. You don’t. I’ve had more success dating and putting my life together again by following Able’s suggestions than any others. And while I haven’t found someone that I want to spend the rest of my life with, I’ve been able to make sure I’m dating for the right reasons and not to fill the empty space in my heart. For that, I will forever be grateful to Able and his advice and the time he takes to personally respond to my emails when questions or situations arise.
Here’s a thought: Instead of calling people stupid and telling them they don’t know what the hell they’re talking about when it comes to widower’s dating and remarrying, walk the walk first. Until you’ve done it successfully you have ZERO CREDIBITLY with me about what works and what doesn’t.
Since the rehtoric on this thread isn’t simmering down, all comments will now be placed in moderation before being posted. Comments that don’t add to the discussion will not be published.
Lol. Read that as ‘posts that don’t align with my philosophy won’t be posted’.
I have NEVER been presumptuous of anothers feelings regarding a major life event such as death as I know personally how much that can hurt. Read words carefully before you try and put yours in another persons mouth. If I were a person given to feeling aggrieved at misinterpretation and assumption I might feel it insulting that you insinuate such a thing. Luckily I’m aware of the deeply personal nature of all loss, that we all strive to be understood, and that sometimes even I can get things wrong. I apologise if I caused any offence as it was not my intention.
I did not at any time intend to compare losses, or that one might be ‘superior’ to another, or that I might understand more of the pain of loss from the standpoint of parent, or widow. What I said was that for me personally, asking another widow/er to not be so affected by the death of someone they held so dear, who knew them inside and out, who held them when they were lost, who lifted them up when they were down, and kept them in such high regard as to forsake all others until death did they part for perhaps 20 years or more, COULD IN MY MIND BE LIKENED TO me personally ASKING a parent (ie someone else whose experience I personally am not living being a seperate person and all) to not be so affected by the loss of their child so that you can have more of them. It’s cruel, and it’s pointless. When you marry someone you marry all of them. You marry their past, and their future. You marry their kids, their triumphs, their mistakes, their times of joy, their times of grief, their extended family, sickness, health, better, or worse. You negotiate these things, and if you’re not up to the task maybe it has something to do with you, as much as it has something to do with your widowed partner.
To whoever compared divorce to loss of a spouse through death…not even in the ball park of maybe even close.
By the way, I’m sorry for your loss
I should correct my previous post by saying that for me personally divorce and widowhood were not even in the ballpark of maybe even close. I’m sorry if for you it was. I would find it difficult to comprehend however.
@Jay…iz okay…wasn’t you. In the beginning my husband would tell me that…and say its apple and oranges i was trying to compare…but later realized that he “needed” his loss to be “bigger” than mine for some reason…however, one night when he said, “…you are comparing apples and oranges,” i said, “…maybe, but we both lost a piece of fruit.” We both laughed out loud…somehow that got through.
@Beth & Elizabeth…thank you for your comments…we have thought about counseling, but i seriously hate them…went once and i thought i was wasting my money…but i may give it another shot…
…we have found another house and are just waiting on the bank to accept our bid…we did discuss where to put the cedar chest in the new house…it seems heartless to put it in the attic…so we will see
@All…lest i paint a one-sided pic of my husband, i need to say that he is a good guy…he read my posts earlier and text me to say, “…you have told me those things a 100 times, but i didn’t “hear” them until you shouted it out to all the world.”
…i emailed a link to Abel’s blog about the LW pictures to my husband early on in our relationship…especially the ones he insisted on leaving in the bedroom, even though we were being intimate at that time. He responded by removing them the very next day. So ever since, I have been reading Abel’s and others’ blogs to help me understand what my husband is going through…
…i can say with perfect truthfulness that should anything happen and this marriage end for any reason, i will never marry another widower…hopefully, no one will take that harshly, but to me, it just seems way too hard…
…personally, i don’t want to go through the “survivor’s” guilt i had early on again…i don’t want to feel the deepest of sorrows i did while sorting his LW’s treasures and knowing that she believed she had many more tomorrows and experiences to enjoy…
…my husband has been widowed for two years…it is my hope that he will completely heal and that our lives will be much smoother in the near future…only time will tell
@Simone I don’t mind disagreements. Feel free to read more of my blog and see for yourself. The comments serve as a discussion not a chance to personally attack others or their beiefs. Since you not presumptuous of anothers feelings regarding a major life event, I’d apperciate the same respect when it comes to my decision to moderate comments.
All… I feel like we’ve all gotten way off subject as this string of posts has started feeling more like a debate (and not a friendly one) more so than a support forum. For those of you who are widows/widowers trying to deal with horrible losses, our hearts TRULY go out to you. We’ve all lost people we’ve loved, and no one is trying to diminish that in any way – - I promise.
I also don’t think anyone on this forum is or was trying to say that a widow/er is somehow obliged to move on or get over anything. Example: My grandmother, after my grandfather died, said there were several men at church “chasing her.” (I can’t say I blame them, she’s adorable!) But her feeling has always been, that my grandpa was the one man in her life for her, and that’s that. And she has no urge to love anyone else. Period. That’s a very personal decision and hers alone to make. And no one thinks she is wrong or that she should “get back out there” or whatever.
I think, what folks on this site are trying to articulate is… that may not always be the case for everyone. There are many situations that run the gamut. Some people may feel they’ve had their “one true love” and that it would feel wrong to seek another. Others may feel they “might” love again someday but aren’t sure. Yet others may feel ready to have that again with someone new. None of these is right or wrong.
But, I think i speak for most people who are the second spouses when I say… If I stand before God and take vows with someone, I expect that WE are the only two in the marriage. I expect my husband to always have love for and memories of past relationships (his sate wife AND any others that were special in his life) just as I do. I do not, however, expect that he is actively in love with another woman now, even if she was his LW. If that makes me selfish, then I’ll accept that. But we BOTH stood before God and our families and said, among many other things, “forsaking all others, until death do us part” when we married. My take is, that pertains to ALL others, living or deceased. (Again, let me be clear, i don’t mean forsaking to the extent of not honoring or remembering or ever speaking of someone… )but…. I expect to have two people, and ONLY two people, in my marriage.
If someone who has been widowed feels that this doesn’t work for them, or isnt’ a place that they could get to, like my grandma, there’s absolutely nothing wrong with that. What is unfair and hurtful is to commit to someone new if you can’t (or aren’t yet ready) to do so fully. As you can see by the many posts here, that is the situation that causes so much pain and angst. For BOTH parties, the widow/er and the new spouse.
I hope this is helpful… and please trust it’s not intended to spark any additional debate or hurt feelings… but to help folks understand. I think maybe Jay and Simone are struggling a bit with the content of this site b/c it isn’t directed at their situations, where they are now… it’s directed more towards supporting folks are are moving into those second relationships/marriages and want to avoid all the pain and suffering you’ve seen chronicled here. That support was never intended to harm or insult those of you still actively grieving your loved ones’ loss.
Best to all of you… but please, let’s try to get back to what this forum is about, which is making things BETTER.
Thanks!
Thanks, Elizabeth.
@Elizabeth….”Blessed are the peacemakers”
Well put!
[...] I not bothered to reply. All would have been well. But I made the mistake of explaining*, which is advice by another name and voila – a flaming hot comment [...]
I have been reading this thread and have been impressed by the comments. I have had broken relationships — he was widowed nearly three years ago. He is busy but so am I. He has children at home, I have adult children and a grandchild. We are both in our early 40s. He keeps cancelling on me, the time spent together gets less. I tried to break it of, he wanted another chance. Once again I find he’s pushing me away. I raise it, he says he’s happy with what we have. I am not. I don’t like being stood up and so much more.
Thanks for this.
[...] January 19 | Second Chances [...]
Since I am still so newly widowed, I struggle to relate to the Annabelle situation. I have only expressed any interest in one person since my wife passed. It turned bad quickly. I thought I was ready for some fairly casual conversation over a casual meal or 2. I probably would have been ok if things had continued in a casual manner, but it soon became clear that my college aged kids were not ready for me to be doing this. Things got pretty intense, and in a near emotional breakdown I did some hurtful things to just about everyone involved.
I’m not sure if I every really had a first chance, but after all that has happened, I’m just glad that I’m still being given any chance at all. Thanks.
Each second chance situation is unique (and not just for widowers). If you cared about the person before, keep the dialogue open (the silence is what nearly destroyed everything in my situation) and wait a while before you decide that someone is not worth a second chance.