Widower Wednesday: Translating Widower Behavior
March 16th, 2011 | 31 comments
In the comment section of my last column a few of you asked for insight on dating a widower with minor children at home. A few months ago, I published a column on the subject. However, I don’t know if it was very helpful. Though I feel confident about addressing most widower issues, I have a hard time with the minor children one. I’m not sure why I feel this way about the subject. Maybe it’s because I I’d have no clue what I’d do if Marathon Girl were to die (heaven forbid) and I found myself a widowed father of four young kids. Maybe it’s because every kid is his or her own person and parenting needs to be tailored to the unique personality and needs of a child. Whatever the reason, this is the one widower-related area I don’t feel confident about dishing out advice.
So, I have an idea. Those who have ideas or experience in what works or doesn’t work with dating a widower with minor children and/or blending families with minor children, send me an email with your thoughts on the subject and I’ll post them in a future column. I’ll post your insight under your first name, pen name, or anonymously. Just write up something between 100 and 300 words on the subject and I’ll combine them into one column or two—depending on how many publishable responses I receive.
Sound like a good idea? Great. Now on to today’s Widower Wednesday column.
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I’ve receive a lot of emails asking me to interpret the odd or strange behavior of widowers exhibit in relationship situations. As a result, I’ve come up with a guide that cuts through the BS of the most common situation s and lets you know what the widower’s really saying.
Odd Widower Behavior: After fawning all over a woman and telling her how much he loves her, the widower withdraws from the relationship and tells the women he a) wants to date other women b) needs more time to grieve or c) isn’t sure how he feels about the relationship. In all three cases he usually asks the woman to wait around while he figures things out.
What the Widower Means to Say: I jumped in to the relationship too fast and now realize it’s not right for me. However, I’m not man enough to be honest with you about this. Also, it’s a lonely world we live in. In case I can’t find someone else I want you waiting in the wings so I have someone to come back with.
Odd Widower Behavior: Despite being in a committed/exclusive relationship and telling the woman how much he loves her, the widower cries nearly every day over his late wife and/or visits her grave or special place at least once a week and/or continually steers the conversation to likes, tastes, and thoughts of the late wife.
What the Widower Means to Say: I’ve got some serious grief issues. I’m probably not even ready for a committed relationship. As long as you put up with this behavior, I’ll keep grieving. P.S. Please keep tolerating my grief because I sure as hell can’t deal with reality on my own.
Odd Widower Behavior: After sleeping with a widower for the first time, the widower breaks off the relationship the next day saying he isn’t ready for a relationship.
What the Widower Means to Say: I was just using you for sex. Now I’m off to my next conquest!
Odd Widower Behavior: The widower tells a woman how much he loves her and wants to spend the rest of his life with her. Yet he always hides or lies about the relationship to friends/family/loved ones. He may even ask the woman to hide in the basement when friends unexpectedly drop by.
What the Widower Means to Say: I value the feelings of my friends/family/loved ones more than I value my relationship with you. I’m spineless and dishonest. Thanks for staying with me.
Odd Widower Behavior: Despite patiently waiting for a widower to get over his grief the widower still won’t make any long-term relationship commitments or discuss the future of the relationship. The widower also refuses do things that will make the woman feel like number one. As a result the woman constantly feels like number two or a third wheel.
What the Widower Means to Say: I don’t know how I feel about you. However, I didn’t realize how long I could string out a relationship using the grief excuse. Why didn’t I think of this excuse years ago? I love that no one questions or confronts my bad relationship behavior because I’m a widower. I’m going to keep this up as long as possible.
Entry Filed under: Widower Wednesday
I shouldn’t have chuckled when I read this, should have I?
Replace “widower” and “grief” with just about any other kind of guy or bad dating/relationship behavior – and you could publish this in Cosmo.
A dead spouse is like the definitive upper hand. Whipping out the widow card and slamming it down to manipulate any relationship in one’s favor is not okay, and I wish more people in general (not just women dating widowers) would call people on this kind of emotional blackmail.
A women’s standards should not drop because someone’s wife died on him.
I’m just sad, because that is me. Thanks for the wisdom you have shared, it has helped me make the decision to let my widower go.
@Annie — You should have at least smiled. At least that’s what I was hoping readers would do.
And you got the point of the essay: expect the same behavior from a widower as you would from any other guys. Grief is no excuse for treating a woman like dirt.
@Annie, @Abel, I laughed too! Another interesting aspect of this train of thought…. most people EXPECT you to give a great deal of latitude in these situations, b/c the dude lost his spouse in the past. So not only do you have pressure from him, pressure from yourself (most women try too hard to be sensitive, supportive, etc., I know I sure did) but you also have the opinions and pressures from friends, acquaintances and the world at large, who see him as a walking tragedy rather than seeing him as your boyfriend or husband.
More than one person has thought me cold and/or heartless for (finally) standing up for myself and refusing to put up with things I woudn’t tolerate from any other guy. (And let the record show, things my husband definitely wouldn’t have tolerated out of me with regard to exes!) I’ve said before and will say again… when in doubt, put the shoe on the other foot (his foot!) and that usually cures what ails ya right quick.
This could not be more timely for me. W is widowed for 3 years and we are dating for over 2 years, but he is still walking on eggshells around grown and minor daughters about me and I am still excluded from events. It’s partly my own fault. I allowed myself to be “hidden” for a long time, which I know is not advised. I should have waited until he was ready to be more open as now this has become a habit. Evidently I am still to be hidden at times, depending on their opinions, yet I am expected to act like a couple… signing both names to greeting cards, etc. I am confused. I am looking forward to your
AJ, kids – big or small, should never be allowed to dictate terms or behavior to their parent. Being the parent means enduring the withering disdain of your children when you are right and they are wrong and both parties are well aware of it. And disrespect should be nipped in the bud. Otherwise you end up with bratty kids who will try to manipulate everyone they encounter in life.
Great column Abel. Had a good message and was funny. I would only augment one thing. Regarding the sex issue. Yes, there are some widowers (because they are men first, widowers second) who will jump into bed with a woman and use her.
There is another version of that activity IMO. It was how I felt after first time of having sex after LW. Maybe you can call me guilty for not having more self-restraint, but events just fell into place and we found ourselves in an intimate situation. The sex was lovely and it ‘just happened’ but my version of the W reaction was, after said and done, a bit of self-shock. “What have I just done!?!???”. It was a very strange mixture of feelings not anywhere close to what you succintly described as a man using a woman. It was a feeling that I had just cheated on my wife….but no….wait….I’m not MARRIED ANY MORE…was the next thought. Hey guy, you’re single. You’re not cheating!!! Get a grip on the new reality. Lots of things going through my head and immediate adjustments to be made. A different man, a different reaction may have been to run.
But I didn’t run. We both agreed to get together the next weekend after we had that time to think and get our heads around this fast-forward relationship we had just stepped into. We discussed and we moved on. It was OK. The relationship ended eventually after a year. No need to add details, but it did not end because I was using her. I guess the difference compared to your alternate yet fully valid scenario above was communication and intent.
Also, on the kids dictating terms. I can’t take credit for sitting down and figuring this out with a lot of intellect, but LW had been dead for more than six months and I had already become serious with a woman (described above) and I was getting a little push-back from the kids, I firmly, maybe with a bit of anger, said something like “OK, look, your mother has passed away. There is nothing I could do about it. You know how much I cared for her and loved her, but I am a grown-up and a man and I need to move on with my life.”
A discussion ensued and I learned that the concern was not that I was with another woman but that I was moving a bit too fast in their opinion. I said I understood, but I intended to continue my pursuit of the relationship.
From that point on we had an understanding. Frankly, I did ‘slow down’ a bit with the dating (it was an out of town L.D. relationship) and listened to the kids concerns. But I didn’t exhibit shame for dating and I didn’t stop my manly pursuit which frankly I felt entitled to, to find a new mate. It was later that I found that person. My Perfect Gal. So, NO, the W should NOT allow kids or LW family to make him ashamed of moving on and set a situation where he hides the GOW from them. An initial period of walking on eggshells, or rather, ‘easing’ the kids into the fact that Dad has a new lady is appropriate, but eventually, and long before the GOW feels that he is ashamed of her, he should lay out his intent and his needs in a direct way: “I love you all and I won’t do anything to hurt you or disrupt your life, but the fact is I am moving on.”
Good Lord, now that I think about it, the kids and extended family don’t know it but they WOULD NOT want me around without a good woman in my life like P.G. I would be an intolerably crankly old BEAR!
…very interesting! : )
AJ~~I’ve been in your shoes. If you’ve gone this long with this behavior, it won’t get better on it’s own. The W will continue this nonsense because you are going along with it. (Like I did.) My advice: Tell the W you’d love to date him again when he has his widowed act together. That means no walking on eggshells for anyone, no hidden girlfriend, etc. He probably calls you ‘his friend” too. This 2 year relationship is going in circles like a whirlpool and it only gets worse. It’s not going forward. You will become (if you aren’t already!) resentful, and he will make excuses or start calling you ‘difficult’. As hard as it might be, move on. This W is putting everyone else first and not respecting you, your feelings, and your relationship. Maybe walking away will wake him up, maybe not. If not, he was just looking for a companion to ease the pain, ease the transition, learn how to be single, etc. The important thing is that you are here, you realize what is happening. What happens from here depends on you. Take control. You decide the outcome of this situation. He’s not going to change like my W didn’t. And I wasted 5 years ‘waiting’. Learn from my mistake.
Karen M. here (the one who made peace with fiance’s memorial tatoo, in case anyone read last week’s column).
Abel, nice job summarizing the psyche of those bad players out there in Widower World. Glad there are some good ones as well.
Hilarious! Rolling in the aisles funny, Abel! Bad behavior is bad behavior, even when executed under the umbrella of grieving. Thank you so much for this.
And it should go without saying that widowers aren’t the only ones who pull this sort of craptastic behavior. I’ve had some not-so-proud moments in my dating-as-a-widow time. Maybe a little more subtle, but just as badly done. Consider this my blanket apology to any well-intentioned fellas I may have mistreated along this way. My only excuse is that I was out of my damn mind with grief.
Thanks for the feedback. W is a wonderful person and balancing a lot of stuff, but I did send an email early this morning about not wanting to be treated that way anymore. He feels terrible. The kids are wonderful too but they have a lot of control, not just of my presence but of many things. It’s compounded by his sympathy for them, but I don’t think he is doing them any favors by relinquishing control as parent.
@Ted — Yes, it’s all about intent. I was specifically referring to the one night stand.
AJ~The W can be a wonderful person, but there are clearly TOO MANY WIDOWED ISSUES. The W is VERY aware of what has been going on. The W is going to let the children continue to control things. As my W told me, “I lost my wife, I don’t want to lose my children, too” instead of standing up to the obnoxious behavior of his adult married children. That’s when I said goodbye.
Your W ‘feels terrible” because he realizes you’ve seen the light and aren’t going to sit silently, not because of what actions he has allowed. If the W doesn’t change PRONTO, and I mean w/EVERY issue that upsets you, then please reread my #9 entry above and find a man who will back you 100% instead of giving you crumbs. I could write a book of the widowed nonsense I put up with partly because I didn’t know how to handle it, and there were no advice books or online websites like this one. When I said goodbye, it was hard, but I kept replaying all the sugar coated nonsense (“I love you. My interfering ex-in-laws don’t mean to hurt you” or “You mean the world to me, but my married son who can’t stand me dating, has a problem being around you”. BE STRONG, SAY ENOUGH ALREADY AND BE PREPARED TO WALK AWAY.The only way this nonsense will stop is if YOU stop it like I did!
Thanks Karen. Are you in a good relationship now with another W?
AJ~~No, I will not date another widower after what I experienced. I never met so many mean people in my life, all having an opinion, all trying to influence and control the W, purposely ignoring me or not inviting me to couple events, trying to set the W up with women they picked out, relatives not speaking over us as a couple, relatives purposely putting up more pictures of the LW when they knew I was going to be around, talking about the LW like I wasn’t in the room, tantrums by an adult married son, (and more nonsense! )while dating the spineless W. I’m sure there are a few sincere W’s out there, but, no, thank you, this is one area I don’t ever want to revisit.
@Karen, I feel for you… and am so sorry you went through that. Even in my situation (where things are much better now) I will say that it’s probably the hardest thing I’ve ever gone through (relationally speaking) and I’ve had some tough stuff in my life!
As much as I love my husband, and I do, if I had known how difficult a struggle it would be (on an ongoing basis) I might have done things differently. (And I had to laugh a little to myself at your post, I admit, about the pictures of the LW.) My husband’s LW’s sister just did that very thing, redecorated recently, and put this HUGE picture of my husband and his LW (her sister) up in the center of this photo section (that photo being roughly 5X bigger than any other picture in the collage… and no pictures of her and her own husband!) Then made a huge deal out of showing it to everyone, including me, with my stepdaughters present. Methinks some therapy might be warranted? Lol
In all seriousness, my husband and I are in a good place now, but I sure do have the welts and scars to show for the time spent getting us here. While I wouldn’t go as far as to say “never,” I would warn folks to tread very slowly and carefully, as they may be getting a lot more heartache than they bargained for.
(Present company excluded, of course, Abel, Ted, Annie, etc.!)
@Abel – harsh words, this column!! I was not laughing at all.
@Karen and AJ – I’m sorry for what you’ve been through. You are/were right to get out. Being “hidden”, not being invited to events and having to put up with LW’s ridiculously cruel relatives is horrible. There is no reason for anyone, even a widower, to treat someone else as a non-person. I also agree that children should not have a say in what the parent is doing.
That said, I still think a few pictures around (and the tattoo from last week) are no big deal. I read online about a widow whose new man asked her why there were no pictures of him in her home, but still pics of the LH and her answer was, “You have to earn your place on the wall!” And he did, and they’re happily married. And the pics of LH are still there along with the rest.
@Pam, it is lovely that you can be so expansive and casual about things like pictures and tattoos. It doesn’t work for me, though. Physical representations of my husband’s first marriage don’t belong in our life, in any form. He is welcome to display some family pictures which include his LW, but no portraits of her or pictures of just the two of them. Those things are his to keep, privately tucked away where he can look at them, alone, whenever he chooses. . . And if he had ever challenged me to “earn” my place, on his wall and clearly by extension, in his life, my back would have been the next and last part of me that he ever saw. It’s arrogant and off-putting and that widow should thank her lucky stars that the new man in her life stuck around.
As for the descriptions of widower behavior, probably a litle ‘worst case scenario’ but, if the shoe fits. . . I have met people whose behavior was much like Abel described and they didn’t have the handy excuse of being widowers. I count myself among the very lucky women who met and married a widower who is also the most wonderful, loving man in the world.
@Elizabeth, I appreciate being excluded, but I think it really comes back to personality and personal experience and not “type”. In my younger days, I had experiences with divorced men that resulted in my serious avoidance of them as a group. When I was widowed, I went back into dating with a grimace b/c my only prospects seemed to be divorced men, and I found them to be still quite unpalatable generally b/c so many seemed to be looking for permanent on-call girlfriends who were expected to line up behind kids, ex-wife and buddies. So, it’s not just widowed men who behave badly. Some people have a poor sense of what it means to be in a relationship. They probably always did. However, that doesn’t mean that someone won’t come along who can tolerate them and therefore reinforce their sense of how things ought to be. I imagine it would be interesting to her the late wife’s take on some of this badly behaving widowers b/c I am willing to bet they weren’t all that great of husbands. A man doesn’t suddenly become a selfish, clueless jerk, imo.
But I think it all still gets back to communication – early, honest and often – about what is hoped for and what is expected and what one wants. Pictures, tattoos, etc., it’s all on the table and should be discussed. Someone who refuses to talk things out or insists on things their way only or lets outside influences rule the roost is not a good bet whatever his status is – divorced, never married or widowed.
@Annie, I couldn’t agree more! There are all kinds of bad behaviors in the dating world … but certainly they are not just limited to those who have been widowed. (And they aren’t all men behaving badly either, I’ve seen my fair share of women treating people poorly!!)
I think the issue that arises is this: with men who haven’t been widowed (ie single, divorced), it seems much more intuitive to women to see the behavior for what it is (unpalatable, great word!) and not have any qualms about setting boundaries and/or making an exit if necessary. Lord knows I”ve beat many a hasty retreat in my dating years, with no qualms whatsoever!
In a situation with a widower, though, I think it turns that dynamic on end (or can, anyhow) b/c women second guess themselves out of sympathy, caring, insecurity, etc. – a whole host of odd, sometimes irrational (for me) feelings. Somehow it feels “wrong” to set a boundary when the man’s poor behavior stems from grief or tragedy. It feels selfish, insensitive, disrespectful to the deceased, “shrewish” if you will. Not saying it should… b/c it shouldn’t. But it’s hard not to let it affect how you view things and how you react. (At least at first it is!) lol
A woman has every right to expect the same level of commitment from her husband ras any other wife, egardless of when, why or how his past relationships may have ended. But, at least from my experience, it took me a LOT of working through all those other feelings to get to where I felt right in standing up for myself and insisting that my husband position himself fully on “Team Elizabeth” so to speak.
I think that’s one GREAT benefit of Abel’s blog… is it heps women involved with (former) widows to understand that it’s not wrong, or selfish, or insecure, or any of those things, to expect to be the ONLY wife in your marriage (or the only girlfriend in your relationship). B/c you’re right, these behaviors exist across the dating world… and how a past relationship ended shouldn’t mitigate what’s considered disrespectful or hurtful or inappropriate.
And the communication piece, IS key. B/c as we’ve seen in these posts, what’s a dealbreaker for one may not even ruffle the feathers of another, and vice versa. The important thing, across the board, is that the relationship you’re in NOW is the one that’s being given priority. The rest can be worked out, if that’s in place.
Happy Friday everyone!!!
@Annie and @Elizabeth – Thanks for putting everything in perspective, as you always do. Have a terrific weekend!!
While dating or marrying a widower can can be boobytrapped liabilities (and don’t we kvetch about those here), it can also come with benefits.
Maybe Abel should do the flip version of this topic some week, i.e. Good Widower Behavior and What It Really Means.
Example: A widower who proposes for all the right reasons is also saying “I love you enough to make a lifetime commitment, even if it means I am putting myself at risk of losing someone I love once again, or enduring a long illness.”
Widowed or divorced, making the big commitment the second time around is a lot harder, yet in some ways, it is all the sweeter because you are willing to take that leap without the blinders.
@Elizabeth, I agree that the sympathy factor probably keeps people from speaking up b/c they fear being seen as harsh. And grieving people can be quick to take offense and use their loss as a shield. But women, in general, have been taught to search for hidden meaning and make up excuses to explain away bad behavior in dating/marriage anyway. It’s good that people here are willing to share their stories and takes on issues so that anyone who finds themselves doubting their response to a situation while dating someone who is widowed can get a bit of clarity.
@Karen M, sharing stories is a good idea. I am not sure though that marrying a second time is all that heroic a gesture though I would agree that it highlights a sense of optimism about love and life that not everyone possesses.
TO Abel: First, and MOST IMPORTANTLY, THANKS FOR YOUR WEBSITE, AND W-ER WED. I just ordered your book “Room for 2″. The website has helped me have more insight, from the man’s point of view: good, bad, or whatever??? My “Friend” is now coming up on 2 years widower, status. He is “NOT COMFORTABLE” or thinks his daughters, ( 14 and 18, tomorrow) are ready to see “Dad Dating”. My question to him is “Who’s the ADULT???” 50% he walks and 50% he talks. Any insight?
P.S. For the record about myself. The college friend, that he knew & my family, before ever being married to LW, (16yrs)
@DeLao, are you comfortable w/only 50% of a relationship? If you have made your position clear and he is still waffling, all that is left is to do is say “I’m sorry but this doesn’t work for me” and move on. Understanding why he might be behaving as he does changed nothing really. And having known him prior to his marriage counts for nothing. What do you want? Are you happy? Is what he can offer enough? Put yourself first and do what’s best for you. Good luck.
Once again I find myself thinking “Wow, Able likes to paint things in Black and White, and uses a very wide brush to do so”. Not every person who exhibits bad behavior in a difficult situation is a deceitful, womanizing bastard (though some are). Sometimes, it’s just being uncertain about how to handle new emotions in new situations. I have noticed this trend in your writing several times.
Come on, Abel, you know that being a widower is hard, and to expect a widower to know all of the right ways to handle the emotional/relational stresses is as unfair as expecting the same of our children after the death of their mother.
With that said, I also recognize that each of the “Odd Widower Behaviors” listed here is probably a warning that something is out of balance. (speaking from experience). I will agree that if your widower is exhibiting one of these behaviors, you need to deal with it, not ignore it and enable this behavior under the “widower excuse” clause.
Please tell your widower VERY CLEARLY what your conserns are, and how it is affecting YOU. Clarity from someone who cares provides boundaries that will help promote growth and healing.
Yes, Gary, sometimes widowers don’t know the right ways to handle all the stresses that come with starting a new life. But every widower does know whether or not they’re using the woman they’re dating. Losing a spouse is no excuse for bad behavior.
My widower only shows one of the above signs. He is wonderful otherwise and wants to get married, but he often talks about his deceased wife after 9 years. I don’t think I’ve been with him one weekend that her name hasn’t come up. He was married for 30 years and says there is just a long history there…should I accept this as normal?
If we’re having issues with combining our pets (he has 2 dogs, I have 2 cats), you can bet there will be problems trying to handle his children’s concerns. Our relationship is too new to predict how he will respond to his youngest child who seems to feel that he is disrespecting his LW by dating me. Luckily, he has alerted the family with whom his 3 kids live that his youngest is having problems adapting to him getting serious with someone new. I will be meeting for the first time his children in a few weeks (we have a LD relationship), and am curious how they will take to me. I will find it interesting to observe his behavior with his kids. After reading this column, let’s hope I will be better prepared to deal with whatever behavior I see from either my wonderful W or his children.