Widower Wednesday: Chapter 1: What You Permit, You Promote
February 27th, 2013 | 32 comments
The following excerpt is an excerpt from Life with a Widower: Overcoming Unique Challenges and Creating a Fulfilling Relationship.
Chapter 1: What You Permit, You Promote
When I started dating Julianna, one of the things I learned by our third date was that she wasn’t going to tolerate any bad behavior from me just because I lost my wife. She let me know in no uncertain terms that if I was really ready to date again, to open my heart to someone other than my late wife, I needed to treat her like the center of my universe. She would not be made to feel like she was second place. If she felt like I wasn’t ready to move on, or that I was simply using her as a placeholder, the relationship would be over.
Julianna’s high standards took me by complete surprise. I had recently ended my first serious relationship with a woman I’ll call Jennifer. When we started dating, Jennifer didn’t set any expectations about how she wanted to be treated or wanted me to behave. If anything, I was allowed to get away with behavior Jennifer probably wouldn’t have tolerated from other men simply because I was a recent widower.
For example, after we started dating exclusively, I kept my relationship with Jennifer a secret from my immediate family and close friends. Jennifer knew I hadn’t told anyone about her, and though she asked me a couple times when I was going to spread the word, I told her that my friends and family were still grieving and would probably have a hard time seeing me with someone else. I kept the relationship a secret as long as I could and only broke the news a few days before she was scheduled to fly in to visit. Since I lived just down the street from my parents’ home at the time, I knew there was no way I could keep her visit from them. I only told them about us because I was forced to—not because it was something I wanted to do. Had she not flown in to see me, or if I had lived far away from the prying eyes of family and friends, I don’t know when, if ever, I would have told anyone about our relationship.
What I didn’t realize all those years ago—but Julianna understood very well—was that when you allow a widower to get away with bad or unacceptable behavior through silence or by making excuses for him, you’re sanctioning it. Julianna already had plenty of concerns about dating a recent widower. The last thing she wanted was to waste her time in a relationship where she had to compete with a ghost or feel like a replacement. She was only going to seriously date someone who would treat her like a queen, and she wasn’t going to make exceptions for me. After setting her expectations, she waited to see if I loved her enough to treat her the way she wanted. Not once did she lower those expectations or allow me to get away with things because of my loss. We’ve been married for ten years, and her expectations are the same now as they were the day I met her.
Julianna’s boundaries forced me to decide how much I valued her and whether or not she was worth pursuing. Had I simply been looking to fill the hole in my heart, the relationship wouldn’t have lasted very long, and I would have moved on to someone who would make excuses for me.
On the other hand, Jennifer’s permissive attitude taught me that it was perfectly acceptable if I treated her like some dirty little secret. I could play the grief card whenever I said or did something out of line. It was the ultimate “Get out of Jail Free” card, and I’m ashamed to say that I used it every time the opportunity presented itself. Instead of having to explain why I was acting a certain way or hadn’t kept my promises or commitments, I could just say I was going through a tough time, and that would be that. End of story.
If Jennifer had put her foot down early on about the secret nature of our relationship, I would have been forced to think about how much being with her really meant to me. Looking back, I believe I would have valued the opinions of my family and close friends over hers, and the relationship never would have become as serious as it did. In the long run, that would have been a good thing because Jennifer deserved someone who wanted what she did: a serious, committed relationship.
If you don’t set expectations and boundaries or confront the widower when he steps out of line, you’re going to get used and abused. On the other hand, by permitting certain behavior early in the relationship, it’s going to be much easier for him to continue to come up with excuses for not changing when things finally reach a breaking point.
One common example of this is when a widower takes his girlfriend into the bedroom he and the late wife shared. Upon entering the room, the girlfriend discovers that there’s at least one picture of the late wife hanging on the wall or sitting on the nightstand, and/or the late wife’s clothes, toiletries, and other personal items are still where she left them. Instead of feeling like a quiet, private place where they can enjoy an intimate moment together, it feels like they’re going to have sex while the late wife watches.
At this point, the girlfriend has a choice to make: She can proceed like everything’s okay, even though she feels uncomfortable with all the late wife’s things in the room, or she can stop the kissing and the foreplay and tell the widower how uncomfortable she feels. Either way, boundaries and expectations will be set.
By proceeding, she’s telling the widower that having photos of the late wife staring at them while they share a passionate moment is okay, even though she probably wouldn’t tolerate the photo of an ex-wife or past girlfriend “watching” them if the man was single or divorced. Maybe she’s worried that saying no will make the widower think she doesn’t love him or it will create an awkward situation. While consenting may avoid an uncomfortable conversation now, she’s telling the widower that there are no late-wife boundaries when it comes to the bedroom. It also makes it harder for the widower to take down the photos later when she finally voices her concern about them. She slept with him before without saying a word, so he won’t see what an important issue it really is. It gives him a good excuse to drag his feet or see how serious she really is by trying to get her back in the bedroom.
On the other hand, if she says that doing it with the late wife’s things everywhere is too uncomfortable or doesn’t put her in the mood, she’s drawing a line in the sand.
It may be embarrassing to tell the widower you’re not sleeping with him while the late wife watches, but life is full of awkward situations where we have to stand up for our values and beliefs. Besides, when you’re dating a widower, there are going to be plenty of similar situations down the road. The sooner you can stand up for yourself, the better it will be for your physical, mental, and emotional health.
These uncomfortable moments are a good way to see whether or not the widower is going to respect you. If he does, he’ll find a way to put your wants and needs first. He may take the photos down, suggest another room, or say that you should both wait until he’s more ready to take this step. A widower who doesn’t care about your thoughts and feelings will do everything he can to wear down your resistance. He may say the photos aren’t a big deal and that you’re overreacting. Or maybe he’ll say that if they bother you that much, you should leave. Either way, you’ll get a good glimpse of the real man you’re dating.
Figure out early what you will and won’t tolerate and then set clear boundaries. Widowers who want to move on will try their best to meet your expectations. They may screw up several times along the way, but they’ll keep trying to reach the bar you set for them without making excuses as to why they’re falling short.
I wasn’t always perfect when it came to the expectations Julianna set for me, but at least she could tell I was trying my best. And please note that I never intentionally tried to cross any lines. As things moved forward, she was able to see that I really was the man she thought I was—someone I might not have become had she relaxed her standards.
Even if you’ve allowed certain behavior to go on for a period of time, it’s never too late to have a heart-to-heart conversation with the widower to let him know what’s expected of him. You just need to explain in a very loving manner why you’ve permitted the behavior and why you’re setting new boundaries. The key to making this work is to be strong and firm in your resolution and to not be afraid of ending things if he tries to lower the bar. There’s not a man on earth—widower, single, or divorced—that’s worth settling for.
Entry Filed under: Life with a Widower: The Book,Widower Wednesday
Spot on! Because my husband and I had a history which did not bode well for his ability to commit to me and mean it, I made my expectations clear from the beginning. It had nothing to do with his status as a widower but everything to do with my expectation that he’d respect me and our relationship more than he had when we were young. There were no ultimatums or demands, just clearly delineated expectations and boundaries. Granted, I probably made him go a few extra miles because I was scared to give him my heart a third time and risk having it crushed, but he more than met the challenge. On the rare occasion that he didn’t, it was because he was unaware of how I felt. For example, when he first started introducing me to colleagues and friends he’d point out that he was traveling east regularly to see me and to spend time with his elderly parents. He phrased it in a way that made our relationship seem casual, which it wasn’t, and it felt like he was trying to deflect anticipated criticism from colleagues who knew his LW (they often worked and taught together). It was a little thing, but it bothered me. Once he understood, he stopped introducing me that way. He still mentioned his parents but gave them separate billing instead of lumping us together.
We’ve been together 4 years and married for 2 and I have never felt like I am less than the center of his universe. He had a wonderful 30 year marriage with a woman he loved deeply but never compares us and always makes me feel that I am first in his heart. It isn’t always easy but as long as we continue to talk openly and honestly, our relationship thrives!
Can’t wait to read the rest of the book!
Thanks, Lynn. I hope to have it officially ready next week.
I left Dave(widower). He just could not hear
my boundaries about his wife’s pictures not only in bedroom but living room that I had to face while watching TV. I couldn’t get him to sit down and talk. He became defensive, discussed our issues with his sister and daughter and not me.
I walked out. It cost me dearly. I gave up my material possessions and had to start over.
Months later Dave text me out to dinner. I ignored his texts. Then almost a year later we got together. He wanted me back but I reminded Dave we could not live together.
He tried to say he’s made some mistakes but I again said I couldn’t go through that again.
So we go the movies, eat out once in awhile.
Wish I had read this four years ago when I started dating Widower. I feel I have allowed him to treat me as a lower class citizen, as still to this day he doesn’t allow me to his place when his adult children (27,30 & 37) are visiting. There isn’t any thing to show that I or my children exist at his place, only photo’s of his family, he hid photos of our week holiday away, in case they found them. When one daughter turned up when I was there, she simply looked at me and the her father and said ‘I’ll come back later!’ I have asked him if he wants to introduce me to his daughters and his reply was simply ‘just leave it as it is, because of the situation’……Now what???
FIrst of all, decide what you want in a relationship and what you are willing to live with. Then it will be time for a very frank conversation with W. You have to find out how he views the relationship now and going forward, including issues with his children. Can he put you first or will his adult children (with lives of their own) always take precedence? If he wants to continue the relationship does he have the strength to stand up to his children when they object to the change in status quo? Then you need to be honest with what you need and expect from him and the relationship. Are you willing to always be second and frequently excluded as they continue “their” family? If you both want the same things and he is willing to make real changes, great! If not, you need to decide to stay or go. It sounds very much like this W has things exactly as he likes them – his family with LW intact and the benefits of you, on the side. You are clearly not a full partner in this relationship and four years is an awfully long time to be hidden. Only you can decide if that’s okay with you because as it stands now, he has no reason to change anything! Good luck.
Thank you Lynn, I am my own worse enemy..I don’t know why I have let this go on so long, frightened of being alone I guess? but it has come to the point where my own children (12+9) are asking ‘why don’t we get to meet his grandchildren? and why aren’t we allowed to his place if they’re there? what is wrong with us? aren’t we good enough?’ Its horrible for me to have to answer these questions simply with ‘I don’t know’. Having read through my own comment and your reply that it is simply not good enough to be treated as a mistress/dirty secret anymore and I will be meeting W later to discuss it with him, just got to handle my words carefully. Thanks again Lynn x
I have been with my husband for a total of 6 years, and we have been married for 3. His late wife has been gone for 8 years. I feel like I have been really patient and understanding of the grief he and his 2 daughters (grown with families) feel, but it doesn’t seem to be getting any better. They never got any grief counseling as my husband didn’t feel they needed it…they had each other. Every year on the anniversary of her death, the three of them go off by themselves for the day. That day is close to Mother’s Day, and also the mother’s birthday which is shared by one of the daughters. It is a very rough month! So today, I came across a video in the player that my husband had been watching while I was at work…his wedding to his late wife. I really don’t know what is normal behavior and what is not. How long does this go on, and should I be concerned? I feel like there are three of us living here, and I have to tell you, it really gets to me sometimes.
Any advice would be appreciated!
Excellent first chapter! And as Lynn said above looking forward to reading your entire book! Thanks once again for taking a difficult subject and bringing it with smart, thoughtful words to the reader!
This should be on every hospice bereavement reading list for both clients and staff.
Thanks, Lawrn.
Wow! I can only say that I wish I had read this book nearly 40 years ago, and realized that it was okay to do the things Julianna did. I gave way, way, way, too many “home free” passes becasue of “what he’d just been through”. Our relationship could be (and probably would be) very different–or else nonexistant today. And either way, it would be a good thing!
Exactly. There is nothing wrong with knowing what you want and expecting to get it. That’s how good relationships end up in a place that both parties want to be and are happy.
I know of some one who married a W and who permitted him to keep LW stuff all over the place, saying. “I didn’t mind”, or “It didn’t bother me.” One thing people don’t realize is that it isn’t just about the GOW / WOW, it’s also about the W. Allowing him to have constant reminders around helps to keep the wound open and sets it up for it to never heal. The aforementioned W eventually committed suicide. I believe the pain was too great to bear and his tolerant lady only helped to prolong his misery. She caused his death as much as he did because what she permitted, she promoted: pain and misery.
Assuming that the W was an adult, the choice to commit suicide was his and his alone. It is sad, but not the new wife’s fault and certainly she was in no way responsible for promoting his pain and misery. At most she is guilty of trying to be compassionate and understanding of his needs. You cannot force another adult to change what they don’t want to change. Could she have made other choices? Yes. Might they have helped him move forward? That’s a big MAYBE which cannot be proven. Suppose she had tried to set boundaries but he refused and she decided to end the relationship. Would he have been less likely to commit suicide? I’ve read the books, articles and blogs that urge women in relationships with widowers to be understanding and patient and to recognize that the LW will always be in his heart/memories. What is a mere mortal woman supposed to do? Most of us aren’t clairvoyant and I’ve never heard of a magic spell that would deter someone from what they truly want to do. I won’t go so far as to say suicide is selfish but certainly it is the act of someone who is so wrapped up in themselves that they cannot see beyond their own misery. He made a choice. She was not responsible.
Early on when my husband and I were first dating, I felt uncomfortable with the remnants of his first marriage that he left in the bedroom of the house they shared.
Instead of asking him to remove them or getting upset with him, I simply told him that I was not comfortable sleeping in a room with her belongings in plain view and would not be spending the night there.
I left it ashis choice to decide if our relationship was worth making changes.
Meanwhile I made the decision that if he did not remove these things in a few weeks then I would reconsider the relationship.
Happily for both of us, he did do some housecleaning, and later thanked me for giving him the motivation to do a chore he had been putting off for too long.
I agree, Abel, that a good relationship starts with clear boundaries.
When I first started dating my widower, I did not make an issue of the LW’s things around the house. However, when it became very clear that things were getting more serious with my W, I also made it very clear what I was and was not comfortable with. I did this very calmly and without placing ultimatums on him. Within the week, he did some serious clean-up and has made it a point to do a little bit of housecleaning every weekend. Even though there are still reminders here and there, he has made consistent effort to move forward and has treated me as a queen from day one. I let him know that I will treat him with the same respect that he treats me with.
Because we did not spend lots of time at his house when we were dating, I wasn’t aware of the contents of the closets, bath vanity, etc. There were no pictures around except for the kids-who were between the ages of 12 and 4–school pictures. There were lots of decorative things around, but they were easy to pack up, using the reasoning that my three-year-old was not a good candidate for keeping her hands off, and if anything was broken, I would prefer it be mine–which would make it replaceable.
However, when I tried to unpack my suitcase from the trip we took right after we were married, there was no place to even put a tube of lipstick. Every drawer was full of her things, the bathroom, the hall closet, her closet, etc. were as though she had gone to on an errand and would return promptly, except she didn’t take her purse.
After a few weeks, I finally told DH on his return from work, that if there was room for me in his life, there would have to be room for me in his house. He asked what I meant, and I told him I didn’t intend to live out of a suitcase any longer, and that I had other clothes I would like to move into the house where I was now living. He spent some time that evening emptying drawers, but it was an event I wish I had never witnessed. He took each item out one by one, exclaimed over it, and gently put it a box. I have no idea where the box went, only a couple of drawers in a 6-drawer dresser were emptied, and I was told I could now “move in”.
Well, it’s been over 36 years now,we moved into a new house we designed and built for us, and sadly, there are still more boxes and spaces occupied with LW’s things than mine–not really-but it is still a sore spot that I have no idea how to help heal. There is just an unwritten law that LW’s belongings are much more important than mine will ever be.
Be sure to get clear boundaries set–preferrable early on in the relationship–but absolute before the marriage.
I’m sorry, Diney.
It’s not his late wife’s stuff anymore it’s your DH’s stuff, it’s his personal collection of LW memorabilia that’s filling your home. It’s a painful process accepting that these things that were once valuable to you because they were valuable to someone you loved are worth almost nothing now that she’s gone, and there are many reasons why he might not be willing to do it (for example fear, procrastination or wanting to control the home).
If you want to help him to heal then the first step is for the two of you to understand why he feels the need for such an extensive collection. If you’re lucky then that understanding in itself might be enough to change the way he feels about the stuff so that he wants to start clearing it out, if not you’ll be in a better positions to decide what to do next.
I think the urge to keep stuff or not is highly individual. I have kept next to nothing of my late husband’s and what there is mainly was kept for our daughter. My husband had a lot of stuff boxed up but aside from cards his LW gave him over the years, everything he kept was for his daughters – who have slowly collected this and that over the last few years. The younger one isn’t as attached as the older one is. She can barely part with anything while her younger sister takes only things that are heavy with meaning and memory.
To me it’s a physical manifestation of emotional hoarding and when two people’s hoarding styles conflict – you have issues.
I only have issues with the piles when they prohibit me from inhabiting my own space. This is my house now and I am disinclined to give up storage space that we need to hang onto stuff that no one thinks about or remembers until they are reminded. But I choose my battles with care and as time goes on, I am gradually winning the war of attrition.
Eight month after my wife died, I found love again. Unfortunately not strong enough to last. Which also caused new damage. But the wounds I can take care off, also meaning that I am very hesitant to fall in love again. Which is, fortunately, not something you can control. Especially on the eve of Spring. Love and learn, I would add.
[...] A paperback version and other eBook formats will be released next couple of weeks. You can read Chapter 1 of Life with a Widower here. [...]
I gave your paperback “Dating a Widower” to my friend who enjoyed reading it–and is following your precepts now as he begins dating. When “Marrying a Widower” is in paperback, let me know, and I’ll order it for him.
Marrying a Widower is already in Paperback. You can find it here. If you mean Life with a Widower, that should be available next week and, yes, I’ll let you know when it’s available.
I am a widow for three years engaged to a widower for one year. In your observations, do widows married to widowers face unique challenges? We live in the house I shared with my late husband, but I have done extensive redecorating and created a study room for my fiancé that he can call his own.
What else can we do to make my home ours?
I am a widowed married nearly six years to a widower, and imo, the issues can be very much the same as those of women who haven’t been widowed. Sure, I “get” the widowed thing, but it hasn’t kept me from feeling insecure or from feeling less than welcome by LW’s extended family and friends. In short, being widowed myself isn’t a vaccine against the more unique issues.
The only thing I can think of that might be specific to widow and widower relationships is the approach to grief and memorializing. It could be a problem if your views don’t match up. And I think, sometimes, in these relationships, the couple has a tendency to allow too much space to the late spouses, thinking that it’s a foursome rather than a twosome.
The best thing to do in the “our home” thing would be to simply ask your guy if there is anything else that needs to be done. I don’t men stress about this the same way women do or feel threatened by the same things.
Wow, that 1st chapter is a real eye opener. I have been seeing a widower for over a year on a friend basis hoping that it would grow into something more. While he has introduced me to family and has been clearing out some of his wife’s things, taking me on dates, etc. he is still holding me at arms distance. I have tolerated it, trying to be oh so very patient with him. It doesn’t seem to be paying off for me. After reading this chapter I think I need to switch gears and let him know how I feel and what I expect of him. Thank you so much for this information. I need to see what happens, if he values me in his life or not.
I am a 2 year widower and started dating about 8 months ago but am finding that my dates so far, about 6, have had bad marriages and are now paralized with fear (their words) of making the same mistake again. I feel that I am pursuing a ghost with them. A few dates live with both feet in the past while I live in a bright future. Because of my age, 81, but actiive and in good health, I also have a hard time finding any one near my age group, either on line or in my enlarging circle of acquaintenances. I would greatly appreciate any ideas for meeting more potential friends that may have a loving future. Thank you! Abel I’ll look for your books at my Western Colorado library.
[...] If you haven’t had a chance, you can read Chapter 1 of Life with a Widower here. [...]
Hi Abel,
You will remember me from yrs and yrs ago when I worked at Best Western.
5 years after my divorce I “remet” a man I had went to high school with, a widower. We were married, but sadly, unable to make it work, resulting in divorce. It is difficult to attempt to blend families under the “best” of circumstances, let alone after the death of a spouse and mother.
I wish I had made use of the resources you had to offer, and I certainly wish this book would have been written already. The first chapter has stirred up emotions! It seems you wrote directly from my life with him. His late wife’s pictures (including a large focal portrait of him and her) remained on the living room wall and throughout the home during our courtship and marriage. They were still on the wall when I felt my heart could bear no more and left. But I had allowed it to happen!
Your book was not written in time for me, but I feel encouraged that your wisdom and straight forward approach will be a useful tool for others.
Thank you!!
Just ordered this book after reading both the “Dating” and “Marrying” books. I met my widower only 2 months after his LW passed away. I was very hesitant to even go out with him knowing it was so recent. I also remember what my father went through when my Mom passed away, so that was my basis on seeing what a widower might/might not do. Thankfully, my W is nothing like my father and things have been going great. Our relationship is taking a step to the next level (moving in together later this summer) so I’m looking forward to reading this book and hearing about some other wormen’s experiences.
I have been with my husband for a total of 6 years, and we have been married for 3. His late wife has been gone for 8 years. I feel like I have been really patient and understanding of the grief he and his 2 daughters (grown with families) feel, but it doesn’t seem to be getting any better. They never got any grief counseling as my husband didn’t feel they needed it…they had each other. Every year on the anniversary of her death, the three of them go off by themselves for the day. That day is close to Mother’s Day, and also the mother’s birthday which is shared by one of the daughters. It is a very rough month! So today, I came across a video in the player that my husband had been watching while I was at work…his wedding to his late wife. I really don’t know what is normal behavior and what is not. How long does this go on, and should I be concerned? I feel like there are three of us living here, and I have to tell you, it really gets to me sometimes.
Any advice would be appreciated!