Widower Wednesday: 5 Dating a Widower Questions
April 27th, 2011 | 28 comments
Just a reminder to anyone who wants their dating a widower story to be considered in my upcoming Dating a Widower book, you have until May 13 to submit a story. I’ve received a bunch of great entries so far and think that your additions will really take this book to the next level. I’ve read through all of them so far and will be making final decisions before June.
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Sometimes I get some dating a widower questions that can be answered in just a couple of sentences. I feel they’re too short for one Widower Wednesday post so I’ve decided to combine five of them into one post.
Q: My widower wants me to go on a weeklong vacation with him and the late wife’s parents. Should I go?
A: That really depends on if you think a vacation like that will hurt or help your relationship. If you get alone with the LWs parents and the widower does a good job of treating you like number one, then I don’t see a problem with it. However, if you feel like you’re going to be an uncomfortable or miserable time, or that you won’t enjoy the trip for any reason, don’t go. There’s no point in torturing yourself for seven days. Wish them all a good time and enjoy some time to yourself while they’re gone.
Q: Will a widower who breaks off a relationship come back after he’s had time to grieve and heal?
A: Probably not. Men have an amazing ability to overcome their grief when the right woman comes along. If he wasn’t able to make room in his heart for you now, odds are he won’t be able to do it after some away to grieve. Waiting around is going to lead to more heartbreak. I recommend moving on.
Q: The widower I love is involved in a lot of self destructive behavior (drinking, drugs, and gambling). What I can do to help him?
A: It’s sad when people chose to destroy their lives. However, there’s nothing you can do to make them stop. Usually people have to hit bottom or have something happen to them before they decide to change their lives for the better. The only thing you can do is offer them an alternative to their activities (e.g., a movie and dinner instead of a night at a bar or casino) and hope they want to be with you. Keep in mind that getting involved in the lives of people who are destroying themselves often end up getting hurt physically, financially, and/or emotionally. I’d hesitate to get to close to anyone with these problems until they’ve done some serious rehab.
Q: I’m dating a widower who is also an artist and has several paintings of the LW in their home. He refuses to take them down because he says they’re some of his favorite work. What can I do to convince him to take them down?
A: I don’t think there’s much you can do. It’s his home and he can put whatever he wants on the walls. IMHO his actions are stating that he values the paintings more than your feelings. If you can’t live with the paintings on the walls and he doesn’t want to take them down, there doesn’t seem much point in continuing the relationship.
Q: I’ve found your blog very helpful but there’s one issue you haven’t addressed. There’s a 22 year age difference between me (23) and my widower (45). Do you think our age will make a difference whether or not things will work out?
A: I think if two people are in love, age doesn’t matter. However, I do find older men (widowed or not) who date women young enough to be their daughters a bit creepy. You might want to really examine the relationship and make sure it’s fueled by love.
Entry Filed under: Widower Wednesday
Both Abel and Annie were brutally blasted at JDA. Although I don’t have to agree with everything I read (because then I would be a brainless slug), I DON’T agree with that kind of behavior and wanted to post somewhere safe. I think there is room for everyone’s opinions, with more rather than less helping us to make choices for ourselves if we are struggling. Everyone and every relationship is different. Just like with any other topic, it makes sense to educate yourself as much as possible and view numerous resources instead of relying on one person’s word as Gospel. Ultimately, what you do is your decision in the end. There really is no reason to belittle anyone, is there? And, BTW Abel, you might get smacked around a bit about the last comment regarding older men and younger women. I am not giving my opinion either way and you are entitled to yours, but if there are folks in that situation they might take offense (I hope they are gentle though…I really hate the nasty comments at the other place).
My DH and I maintained a close relationship with both LW’s mother, and my ex-H’s parents–so much so that when our twins(the children we had together) were filling out pedigree charts at age 12, they couldn’t figure out where the extra grandparents should be written. We had them to dinner, to birthdays for all of the kids, graduations, visited on Christmas, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day, etc. However, I can’t image taking a trip with either of them–with his folks or my folks, yes, but with former in-laws, no. If W is dating, why would he want those two entities together–and if he is now DH instead of W, his efforts should be focused on the new relationship. At the very least, I would question the motives.
As for age difference, I am 11 years younger than my DH. For several years it made little or no difference–but as he has been retired for several years and I am still working full time and will be for some years to come, it is increasingly difficult. He is ready to travel, spend his retirement, etc. while I am still in the working, hoarding, saving for retirement frame of mind. By the time I can retire, he will be almost beyond wanting to tow our fifth-wheel, going boating, etc.–and we talk about this from time to time, with no real solution. Some age differences are too great–I would also think a 23-year-old would want children of her own at some point, but by the time a guy is 45–although still able to father children—new fatherhood can be a questionable endeavor. I was 32 and my DH was 43 when our twins were born–and the age difference mentioned above is twice what we have—it would seem like being married to my own father.
@SJH and Diney — I’d wouldn’t have a problem with the age thing if the ages of both parites were older, say, 40 for the woman and the guy was 63. Really it’s about older men preying on women in their 20s who may not quite understand what getting invovled with an older man means in terms of kids or othe long-term relationship stuff. I know how guys think and usually guys that age who are chasing women that young aren’t interested in a long term relationship. In the case of the emailer, I think dating a widower who happens to be 23 years older it dealing with two tough issues. Yes, both can be overcome, and they could live happily ever after. Maybe it will work out but I’m not overly optimistic.
@SJH — Welcome. We have an open dialoge on this blog. No one has to agree with me or anyone else. Feel free to disagree or offer a different view. As long as everyone is respectful of the opinoins of others, I think we can all learn for what’s being shared.
Just to the age thing, my great-grandfather was in his early fifties and she was just 24 when they wed. They had seven children who grew up with nieces and nephews as playmates b/c GP had grown children from his first marriage. I would say as long as she understands the implications of the age gap, it could work out fine. As an aside, my husband was 45 when he was widowed with 20 sometimes daughters and was appalled by the thought of dating girls their age. It’s a matter of perspective though. Oh, and I was ten years older than my late husband, so youth is no guarantee of longevity.
In the early months of our relationship my bf(W) went into panic mode a few times and said he needed space so I let him go ahead and have his space. He seemed to get really low then after a few days he’d be alright again, very remorseful in fact. First time it happened was very upsetting as it came from nowhere and he changed his attitude towards me quite abruptly. We went back to being friends again temporarily as it made me wary of getting too close. (These episodes usually followed physical closeness iykwim) Second time it happened I just left him to it and he came though it alright. Haven’t really had that since. We worked through it by keeping talking about how we were feeling. That seemed to work for us and we’re still together now- almost a year.
As for the drug addiction scenario, my ex h was into that and I’m so glad to not have to cope with an addict in my life anymore! It was literally the most important thing in his world above anything else. It even took priority over feeding our young children. It definitely hurt financially!! It also hurt emotionally over the years but in the end I got to the point where I was all done with the emotion of it and had no feeling left for him whatsoever. My advice is walk away and don’t look back from anyone who decides to waste their lives like that and is not willing to get themselves sorted. Their selfishness and spinelessness just takes up all your energy!
@Annie — That’s a cool story about your great-grandfather.
I’m glad it worked out for them. Maybe I’ve been creeped out by too many stories of Hugh Hefner.
@Kim H — Glad things are working out for you and the W. Communication seems to be the key. And yes, dealing with addicts (any kind of addict) is asking for trouble. The LW parents had all kinds of issues. Glad to be done with that too.
Thanks Abel. It does seem that all opinions are more respected here than at the other place.
RE: Traveling with late wife’s family: I agree with Abel. If the GOW thinks it would be enjoyable, then why not? Of course, this assumes that all parties treat GOW nicely and everyone gets along.
My fiance and I were recently invited to join his late wife’s parents, siblings, spouses and their teenagers on a family trip to Disneyworld. My fiance’s 26-year-old son and his girlfriend are also invited.
The fiance and I probably won’t go because of our work schedules/wedding plans/budget concerns, but I appreciated the invitation. He and I both feel that trips with our immediate parents/siblings should take priority, and right now we don’t have the time or funds for that either.
What does “JDA” mean?
SJH/Annie/Abel & everyone – I was also personally “brutally blasted” @ JDA’s website and promptly left that site, as have many others over the time I looked at it (for the exact same reason). And while I realize that someone drafting a blog has the right to have his/her position, ‘blasting’ people for not conforming to that position certainly does not generate thoughtfulness for the readers/posters nor does it help people see alternatives to their personal situations, which is a lot of the reason people seek out the input and comments of others on the internet and join little these communities. I haven’t looked back, and do enjoy the new W’s Wednesdays, Abel, very much.
As to the age thing, my ex was 7 years older than me. What happened is that he took that “7 years” to mean he was “older/wiser” and therefore I was always wrong. In responses to the posters above, the age thing really doesn’t make a difference if the relationship is couched in love, trust and respect as opposed to control, lies and egotism.
BTW, my W/BF has proposed recently (2 weeks ago – which is why you haven’t gotten my “500 word or less essay” yet, Abel!), and we are now engaged. We are thrilled! Not sure when we will marry, and will likely take a long while to do so, but the formal committment has a great deal of meaning for both of us.
I am thankful for this forum, for all of you who post here, for all the honesty and experience and questions your posts bring. It has helped me through some rough patches of uncertainty by knowing others have had same/similar experiences and aren’t afraid to share them and provide constructive, meaningful feedback whether it’s been what I wanted to hear or not. So thank you Abel, and thank you all!
@KS Congrats on the engagement!!!! That’s great news. I hope the two of you have a lifetime of happiness together.
Thanks also for your comments on the WW columns. Your insight is always apperciated.
@KS, congratulations! As to forums, they are fine. It’s perfectly normal to seek oot people who are experiencing things that you are b/c knowing others are in similar circumstances is comforting. When the approaches/opinions of others to these shared situations makes you a bit crazy – it’s time to re-examine usefulness and whether the groupthink really lines up with your needs and views. It’s normal to seek these sites out and it’s normal to outgrow them and move on. Online seems to encourage some to drop the “nice” filters that keep real life from being a catfight, but it’s really less personal than it feels. What does it matter if someone you’ve never laid eyes on thinks of how you live your life? I admit it took me a while to come to such a sanguine pov, but my R is a zen master and I have learned a lot from him on that score. More importantly however, wedding details? Please lets us know when you have them. Weddings are joyous and I love hearing about them.
@Karen M, we have been invited to events by R’s in-laws and have attended when we could. We haven’t made any special trips b/c of the constraints you mention – time/resources, which we reserve for our immediate families.
@ Pam: JDA is Julie Donner Anderson, an author who wrote a how-to book on loving a widower (the title escapes me). I have not participated in her FB discussion board, but others have, and some have returned with bad reports.
@ Annie: Yes, we too join the late wife’s clan on holidays or other gatherings, and we expect they will be part of our wedding celebration in September. These folks have supported our relationship with genuine enthusiasm. I feel very fortunate.
@ KS: Congratulations! That’s wonderful news.
@ All – thank you for the well wishes! We are certainly happy and W’s family is thrilled. They have been open, embracing, very kind and it has been more than appreciated by me – more than I can say, especially knowing what others (men & women) go through under these less than ideal circumstances. Makes the congrats from all of you very, very appreciated.
I’m in a unique position of having known my fiancee for many, many years – long before his LW did. I did not talk to him for several years (when as it turned out BOTH of our then-spouses were treating for cancer at the same time – we decided we needed to focus on our spouses and sort of forsake outside friendships/relationships in an effort to appease them both – not just with each other, but with the vast majority of all of our friendships). My fiancee reached out to me soon after his LW passed and I had just went through my divorce a few months earlier and was having a great deal of trouble with my daughter from that marriage over a variety of things. These traumatic events allowed us to rekindle the friendship. When we were young, we were always each other’s confidantes. We again were able to fulfill that role for each other and were able to really confirm/reaffirm what was always a tremendous friendship. It just suddenly dawned on us one day that our special friendship would make a magnificent basis for a really solid love relationship too (as in “Why not? Let’s give it a whirl”) The relationship did not get entered into lightly – days and weeks of discussions, tears, laughs and several very in-depth conversations about our fears of trying a relationship together (we lived almost 400 miles apart for starters) and our fears about not giving it a shot. Imagine, several months of “can we/can’t we?” followed by a lengthy courtship prior to entering into a formal love relationship. It was interesting to say the least, and actually, Abel, was something I really found lacking in the “dating a widower” info department – rekindled love (or in our case, a very close friendship) combined with dating a widower info is REAL scarce!
@ Annie….yes, I agree that people join online communities and may outgrow them / sometimes sooner rather than later or vice versa. Absolutely! But hosting a blog, to me, has some connotations, responsibilities and committments that go with it. There have been many, many times were Abel has voiced his opinion with posters saying something to the effect of “you need to move on”. He is always respectful, always lets the writer know he cares about their feelings and just wants the poster to know he is maybe seeing writing on the wall that the poster might not be able to see because of their emotional involvement in the situation. He is apologetic, but calls it as he sees it. The difference here is that Abel has been wrong (periodically – it’s OK, Abel) BUT is willing to say, “wow – I didn’t see that angle and appreciate that new insight – thank you!” Not everyone does that on their blogs. And not just this kind of blog on widowers…I was also a member of an HIV info site having lost someone very close to me with HIV/AIDS and that blog is also very difficult to ask questions as the owner is very sensitive to the topic and will lash out periodically for, say, posting a question twice or asking questions that may have been answered in archives.
I guess what I’m trying to say is there’s a way to address everyone whether in person or online even if they’re causing trouble intentionally; you can still promote kindness, respect and answer even the most ludicrous of questions designed to ‘stump the expert’ that shows real class in the information possessor. To Abel’s credit, he has always done this here.
As to the wedding….well….it will be sometime this century! Funny enough, I always had that fairytale thing happening in my head (“When I grow up, I want to be a ballerina and marry prince charming”)….now I’ve managed to grow up and mature (especially after one very failed marriage aside from my daughter and my love of the Packers -the two goods that came from it). If we marry this century, it will be great. If we don’t, or decide upon a committment ceremony instead (which is also being tossed around as a possibility), it will be great also. If we decide we’re too lazy/busy/financially committed to a ceremony, that’s great too. We just decided it will happen when it’s supposed to, just like everything else that’s happened in our world has when it comes to each other over the last 25+ years. And the decision will be ours – not mine not his not our overly eager families – ours. Sorry I can’t be more specific, but am enjoying the ride for the moment
Sorry for my long-windedness – dang, Abel – that’s gotta be more than 500 words.
Thank you all again!
KS, I agree, that blogger and site owners have a responsibility to set tone and insist that rules be followed and some don’t. To me this indicates the level to which the person is so invested in their own story and that they can’t acknowledge the truth is others’. The investment could be purely emotional or it could stem from the fact that the person is making a living off their view and can’t afford to admit other pov’s.
Anyway, enjoy your ride. You both deserve it.
@ Annie – thank you! And I couldn’t agree more. And, as soon as I get my SON (fiancee’s little one) into his bath and sit down to obtain all my online mother’s day stuff for the moms, well I intend to also secure my personalized copy of “The Third”, which I’m also excited to read. My own Mother’s Day gift to myself, being the sci-fi/futuristic society reading junkie that I am
I was recently deleted from JDA’s forum (as well as I am sure another woman named Trish) because we both voiced our opinions and disagreed with something she said. I won’t get into the details as they don’t matter. While I respect JDA for giving good insight into communicating with a W, give voice to the issues that may come up for a woman dating a widower that would not typically come up in a non-widowerrelationship, and for bringing together a community of women who are similarly situated so that we do not feel alone, I find her to be “a tad bit” intolerant of those who disagree with her.
I have read a number of blogs and books on grief and dating widowers and while they give me insights and facts, every relationship is unique and I will never take anyone’s word as gospel for my relationship. The only person whose opinions should really matter are my boyfriend’s and his words are the only ones I will count on when making my decisions. Having support from others who are in similar situations help as well as learning about grief and the issues thay may arise when dating a widower help.
So while I am grateful for the support I received from the women on JDA and miss them all very much and am grateful that JDA gave me insights into issues I didn’t understand, I was very disappointed at her action in deleting me purely because I was voicing my opinions.
NYCGIRL, this has happened to others at that site before. Sorry you were deleted, but at least you were not publically blasted as she has done to Abel, Annie and others who do not agree with her. I do not welcome the opinion of anyone who does not at least listen openly to mine and reply with a healthy, mature, and respectful rebuttal if they don’t agree. The majority of folks here seem to respect other’s opinions, as that is the tone set on this site. That is really the only way to get helpful input and information in my opinion.
SJH, I appreciate your concern for the apparent slandering I have taken, but it’s not public really. She is writing on what is essentially a private club website. No one can search it or read it who isn’t a member and if she guards the admission than I don’t see that I have much to be concerned about. She is well within her rights to control the content and tone on a private message board. Sometimes obviously biased opinion is more helpful to someone than give/take debate b/c it’s more eye-opening b/c of what is not being said or acknowledged.
NYCGirl, I am sorry you were treated rudely. I hope you are still able to keep in contact with the friends you made there despite being deleted from the site.
Annie, you are a lot nicer than me
. I still think that someone who disrespects other’s opinions to the point of removing their access or slandering them just because they don’t agree is dangerous…or at least just looking for mindless sheep to agree with her. Just my opinion.
Re: JDA
Sorry to all those who have had a bad experience with JDA and her board. I know she and I don’t see eye to eye on a lot of widower issues. However, I’d prefer this thread not turn into a bash JDA session. She’s free to run her board however she wants and those there are free to participate or see advice elsewhere. I could care less what she thinks of me or these columns.
Anyone here welcome to agree, disagree, or find a middle ground on what I write so long as they keep their comments civil. (I actually learn a lot from your comments so please keep them coming.) I don’t have an ego on this subject. I just want to give some (hopefully) helpful advice to widowers and the women who are in relationships with them. I hope this serves as a form where we can all learn from each other and find the best path in our individual relationships.
Abel
Thank you, SJH and Annie. My intention in posting the above was not to say anything negative about JDA. I was just posting the truth as I am sure the women on the site are wondering where I am and if JDA is not being truthful, then I want them to know the truth. If, however, she is being truthful, then that’s fine, as it is her board and she can do as she wishes and deletes anyone she doesn’t like.
@NYCGirl — Thanks for the clarification. Hope your friends on the board know the real story.
You can always login with a new name if you want to chat with your friends.
Maybe we should start a club, an exclusive one for those who have been kicked of JDA. I have been. Twice.
Seriously, her opinions, forum and book has served many women, as does the same from Abel.
On one hand, JDA has a certain level of credentials of grief counseling per her resume and she is indeed a WOW. So she’s been there, done that. Yet, on the OTHER hand, Abel was a W, remarried and has moved on beautifully. So you have to respect that point of view as well. I mean there HAS to be some value given to a man or men who will speak up and offer to translate ‘Martian” to you dear Venutians. From my experience AK requires decorum and respect and to keep the conversation rated, at worst, PG-13. And that’s all that is needed for a good learning experience among adults IMO.
22 year age difference
I understand your situation very well their is 27 years between me and my widower. I am 37 and he is 64. He thinks the relationship is not fair to me but I don’t agree. I would rather have 10-20 with someone I love than be by myself or with a jerk. However, I do think the age difference plays a bigger role the younger you are. I would not have been prepared for this relationship 15 years ago. Also, I have adopted a daughter so it is not as big of a deal to me if we have kids together or not. There were 22 years between my grandmother and grandfather and at the age of 64 he was a widower with 7 kids at home between the ages of 14 and 1. He raised all of them and me without remarring. I am sure when they married everyone said she would be a widow young but he outlived her by 20 years. You never know what is instore. Just make sure you love each other and cherish every day together.
Forming a relationship with a younger woman (question 5) doesn’t cause me to worry too much. My grandfather was 17 years older than my Grandmother, and unfortunately died before I was born.
One concern that crosses my mind occasionally concerns children. At the age of 46, having more children is not high on my list of priorities, while it may be quite important to a younger woman. I don’t think it would be a deal breaker for me (there are ways around a vasectomy) but it’s definitely a topic that would need some real discussion in the early stages of the relationship.